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2005-11-04 Interview with William B. Keightley, November 4, 2005 AF008:2005OH112A/F696 00:45:45 William B. Keightley Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries University of Kentucky -- Basketball. Basketball players -- Kentucky. College athletes -- Recruiting. Rupp, Adolph, 1901-1977. Basketball -- Coaching. African American basketball players. Smith, Tubby. Keightley, William B.; Interviewee Suchanek, Jeffrey; Interviewer keightley_af_0696 1:|8(14)|17(6)|36(8)|72(7)|95(15)|109(3)|119(3)|125(31)|135(32)|143(12)|146(16)|154(7)|163(29)|166(27)|178(21)|184(34)|188(25)|192(14)|195(25)|203(3)|209(28)|214(5)|221(2)|228(2)|246(24)|256(28)|263(19)|270(23)|284(26)|287(28)|298(21)|315(25)|325(14)|336(23)|347(4)|358(15)|366(20)|371(19)|377(26)|382(4)|388(18)|398(5)|402(15)|408(35)|414(10) audiotrans BKeight interview SUCHANEK: The following is an unrehearsed interview with Mr. William Keightley for the University of Kentucky Libraries Charles T. Wethington UK Alumni Faculty Oral History Project. The interview was conducted by Jeffrey Suchanek on November 4th 2005 in Lexington Kentucky. SUCHANEK: That, Mr. Keightley, I thought today what we would do is, I want you to tell me about your experiences with Coach Adolph Rupp; when did you first meet him and all that? KEIGHTLEY: Well let's see now we, we're, we're getting into the 60's and '61 when I actually came to basketball but I guess in since we getting into this Jeff, I guess I would kinda like to keep the events that happened in my life also along with the business of basketball itself. The '61 - '62 season I started in '61, but in '62 you know, there was an event that happened that naturally changed my life forever that's one of the greatest things that could happen to anyone is the birth of a child. And my daughter was born in August of 1962. SUCHANEK: Okay, when were you married? KEIGHTLEY: In 1950. SUCHANEK: And your wife's name? KEIGHTLEY: Hazel. SUCHANEK: And how did you meet her? KEIGHTLEY: She was, she was a schoolmate of mine at Kavanaugh. SUCHANEK: Oh okay and you'd been dating for a long time? KEIGHTLEY: I had you see you know yes, yes. But anyhow that was such an important part of my life and she you know is such a wonderful daughter. To give you a little bit of history about her, she attended the University and graduated from here and worked her entire time here at the University. SUCHANEK: Oh really, uh huh. KEIGHTLEY: And when she graduated she never left and today she is working for Ag Science in, in animal science. SUCHANEK: Okay, and she's married? KEIGHTLEY: She is married no, I have no grandkids. SUCHANEK: Okay what is her married name? KEIGHTLEY: Marlowe (M-A-R-L-O-W-E). SUCHANEK: Okay Karen Marlowe? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: Okay. When did, when did she get married? KEIGHTLEY: She got married you know what I may be bad on this date, but I believe it was 1994. I believe. SUCHANEK: Okay. What was her major here at UK? KEIGHTLEY: She majored in. SUCHANEK: In Agriculture? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yeah in agriculture, yes. SUCHANEK: Okay, uh huh. KEIGHTLEY: And she worked as she worked some in agronomy. SUCHANEK: I'd like to meet her someday. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, so. SUCHANEK: Yeah. KEIGHTLEY: Alright, yes. SUCHANEK: So it had a good impact on your life didn't it? KEIGHTLEY: Of course, yes, yes absolutely and you know now I, I think she's been employed here could be 17 years. SUCHANEK: So she's been here as long as I have? Because I came in '88. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah she's, well she is she is now 43 and you're 42? SUCHANEK: No I'm 50. KEIGHTLEY: You're 50? KEIGHTLEY: Well daggone (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). I need, I need you're, to study your habits instead of you studying me; I need to interview you (laughter - Suchanek). SUCHANEK: I've got my AARP card. KEIGHTLEY: Yep, you could about qualify. SUCHANEK: (laughter - Suchanek) I do, I've got it. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah that's the best thing, you know I, I know about my life hey if you can live long enough it does, it gets better (laughter - Suchanek). SUCHANEK: My body won't agree with that (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - KEIGHTLEY). KEIGHTLEY: Well I didn't say my legs agree, but you know when you have been employed your entire life you still, still going at a, at a elderly age you know it, it's a little better (laughter - Suchanek). SUCHANEK: Yeah everyday I wake up and I say where did that ache come from (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley)? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah well you just getting started. SUCHANEK: (laughter - Suchanek) that's what I'm afraid of. KEIGHTLEY: Yes my, my basket runneth over (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: Getting back to your career here at U of K and coach Rupp is that when you first met him kind of? KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir when I was, when I began helping him in the ticket office about 1957. When I began helping Harvey Hodges in the ticket office, that's when I first met Coach Rupp. And the guy that was equipment manager then was a guy named Bobby Bradley. You know Bob, he's, he's in charge of the CATS Program here at the University. SUCHANEK: Oh okay. KEIGHTLEY: He's a he is an associate (unintelligible). SUCHANEK: That's a tutorial program? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah huh, yeah he does a great job. But that was my first contact with Coach Rupp and as I say the equipment manager per se at that time was a man named George Hukle, who we spoke of a little earlier, but since I helped George, Coach Rupp was never real great with names so he always just called me "the little George (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley)." I don't know if he, well yes he knew my name and talk speaking of Coach Rupp just a couple of days ago I was leaving the building, I looked down the street and I saw his son Herky walking down the street and it looked exactly like Coach Rupp walking. SUCHANEK: You thought it was the Baron didn't you? KEIGHTLEY: By Golly, hey you know what it about sent cold chills up my back (laughter - Suchanek) that which reminds me of another little story talking about Coach Rupp. About two or three years ago we had the Rupp's Runts. You know that's one of the most popular teams Coach Rupp ever had. We had them back here for a reunion and Tommy Kron who was a guard on that team went into our old locker room there to use the bathroom and while he was using the bathroom and in walked Herky Rupp and Tommy said he looked around and saw him and thought he was in another world because he thought it was Adolph Rupp and it was his son Herky and said he can't imagine what an experience that might have been and I'm sure it was just coming back you know for a reunion. And thinking about old times and of course Coach Rupp used that bathroom too and in walks Herky (laughter - Suchanek). SUCHANEK: He thought he saw a ghost. KEIGHTLEY: Kron was about ready to tear the door off and get out (laughter - Keightley) (laughter - Suchanek). Yeah, but.... SUCHANEK: Well tell me about some of your experiences with Coach Rupp. What kind of man was he? KEIGHTLEY: Well, he his you know, as everybody well knows he was a man way beyond his years in the development of basketball. You know he took the game from well course when he began they were using a center jump, but he took the game to another level. He absolutely built basketball in the south. He proved that basketball could be a profitable sport for all institutions and due to the fact that in his early years here he put together such talent and just as he would say just beating the life out of these teams down south they finally started to take notice; especially when we built this coliseum. SUCHANEK: Uh huh. KEIGHTLEY: And no one ever thought that basketball would ever fill 11,500 seats, but it only took a couple of years and they found out this place was too small. And other, other schools just like today with practice facilities, everybody's gotta have them, the other schools started building bigger arenas and that, you know, that's what he did for the basketball here in the south. And actually even in the mid 40's to the mid 50's it was probably only about eight top-notch quality basketball schools in America. And now today look and see how many there are. And he I, I recall a story he told about when he graduated from the University of Kansas, he had majored in business and he really wanted to get into the banking business and that was back in 1924 or '25 when he graduated. SUCHANEK: Was Phog Allen the coach there? KEIGHTLEY: Phog Allen was the coach and, and he really wanted to get into the banking business and was trying to get in to it and 'course times were a little tough back then and it was, it was a tough business to really to crack and get into and somebody advised him that the best way to get into the banking business was to marry some guy's daughter that that was a president of a bank and he'd have the opportunity to get in, but he said now at that time he didn't know if he wanted to get into the banking business that badly or not (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). But instead you know he, he started coaching basketball in Freeport, Illinois and he had in Freeport, I guess many people know it and maybe no body much knows it, but he had a African American player on his team. SUCHANEK: Oh really? KEIGHTLEY: In 1926 in Freeport Illinois. SUCHANEK: I didn't know that. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. He surely did and 'course when he came here he wasn't of an unknown quality because he was still a young man when he came 1930 and we'd had some success in basketball, but after he got here you know it, it with the way he was an innovator, this sport for the University of Kentucky really, really took off. And you know he, Coach Rupp lived a modest life. You know he's never had but well I can't say he never had but one home here. He may have had one earlier, but he lived over here on Eastover Drive right off of Providence Road his entire life he lived in that home and it's still in the family. And, but he, you know, he was a modest man. He was interested in farming. He had a farm after he become somewhat successful out in Centerville raised Hereford cattle and was always, always interested in agriculture. In fact, he even sold hail insurance at one time to tobacco farmers (laughter - Suchanek). And I know that he went over to my home town over there to try to sell some hail insurance and didn't have, didn't have much luck and what he said they needed to do they needed to have a good hail storm over there and then business would get a lot better (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: Tell me some of the stories that in your experiences with Coach Rupp you know you were there for all the practices and at that time were you, were you sitting on the bench with the team during games? KEIGHTLEY: Well, no, no all that, no sir, that all changed. SUCHANEK: When did that happen? KEIGHTLEY: As the years went by as I was saying in the early years of basketball you only had two coaches, one trainer and, and one team manager; I'm talking about a kid. And equipment people didn't sit on the bench. We had a seat up at the end of the floor in the stands, but no we didn't move on the bench until it was about 1970. SUCHANEK: Was Coach Rupp? KEIGHTLEY: The games, the games started to change drastically about 1980's because it, it kept a real even keel; 'course the entire time Coach Rupp was here he had one system, it was successful so we did not deviate from it. But you know there is so many, so many great stories and just like, like the players used to say, he was serious, but he had this Kansas drawl. He was funny when he wasn't trying to be funny (laughter - Keightley) and you know there's, there's a lot of Coach Rupp stories and, and (unintelligible) many of them you can't tell, but there's a few of them you can tell you know how life is. But one of my, one of my favorites is we had a, an official in this state and his name was George Conley who was the father of Larry Conley, but this was much earlier than Larry's birth because George officiate a lot of our, a lot of our SEC games and they only had two officials at that time. But one night we was playing a game against I think it was Mississippi State and they had a little guard, every time he touched the ball, Adolph thought he was traveling with it. George was an official and that went on for almost a half and finally had a time out. George Conley was elected a state legislator from the Ashland district where he lived and of course you know the legislature meets in Frankfort, so he called George over to him and in that drawl of his he said, "Senator I have always admired you and respected you and had I lived in your legislative district I most certainly would have voted for you, but I see where you jokers down there in Frankfort the other day in the newspaper I read it, you appropriated $80 million for the improvement for the highways in the state of Kentucky and by God you don't know traveling when you see it (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley)." And he, and another official we used to have almost all the time, his name was Dan Tehan, he was out of Cincinnati and he was a sheriff of Hamilton County. And we were playing somebody and we were up about, about twenty-five points or something like that and there wasn't much time left in the game and Dan put the ball in bounds a little quicker to our opponents and really that he was supposed to and we didn't get the opportunity to get the defense set and the opponent threw the ball in bounds and scored a quick basket and Adolph jumped up and he was ranting and raving at Dan Tehan. And Dan said to him, he said, "Why coach said your up by twenty-five points." He said, "By God I know, but if you hadn't have made that damn mistake I'd have been up by twenty-seven (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley)." SUCHANEK: Was Coach Rupp hard to please at practice? KEIGHTLEY: Not, yeah well he demanded, he demanded perfection. The basketball has changed in the way people behave. Basketball has changed in the way that coaches approach it. In, in Coach Rupp's early years in basketball fundamentals was the thing he stressed and we did the same fundamentals over each day. We didn't actually practice that long. He always said that kids cease to learn after hour and a half which is very true. SUCHANEK: Uh huh, you think that's still true or is it even shorter now? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, you don't you know when you just keep going and going you get out of it mentally. You don't get more alert mentally and they would run these fundamentals, all you could hear was just a shoe squeaking on the floor; time after time after time. And then 'course he you know, he demanded perfection and naturally in a, in a game he would see little things that he would chastise the youngsters for it just as they do today. But you know his, his was a little bit different like it's been repeated many times and it's the truth. We're playing somebody and at half time we played a lot of teams now that if you pressed them, they couldn't get the ball across the ten second line. That's the plight of the game in some of the earlier years down south. But anyhow we were playing somebody and we were probably up maybe 60 - 6 at half time he comes in the locker room and he asked some kid from the opponent that had four points and he asked he said, "Now who's, who is guarding this joker?" And he called his number and one of the players held up his hand and said, "Well I am." He said, "Well by God get on him, he's running wild (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley)." He up 60 - 6 and this kid had four points see he was saying there was something wrong with that kid. SUCHANEK: Now by the time you were equipment manager and really got intimately involved with the team in the 60's Coach Rupp had been here a long time already and had had a lot of success. By that time was, was he still a hands on coach during practice or did he let his assistant coaches do a lot of the? KEIGHTLEY: Well, 'course he just had up 'til about 1960's I say he only had well Harry Lancaster at that time. Paul McBrayer was an assistant in back in the late 30's. But Harry was a real active assistant coach, but it's always Coach Rupp's show. And he, he, he even you know I understand it now they it in his time you had to retire when you were seventy years old. He wasn't exactly ready to retire you know. You have now Joe Paterno I believe is seventy-six or. SUCHANEK: Older. KEIGHTLEY: Maybe be my age I don't know (laughter - Suchanek). And, and Coach Rupp wasn't ready to retire and you know what, 'course Jeff you got to live all these different ages before you know I know the perception of what people at a certain age thinks of other people and you can only do that by living to all well whatever your age is. But Coach Rupp probably felt a lot like I do. 'Course he his health was not good; whereas I have been blessed with great health. Coach Rupp really wasn't ready to retire, but he had to and that bothered him some. SUCHANEK: Yeah he was forced out wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes he was and. SUCHANEK: And that was? KEIGHTLEY: And I don't know whose administration. SUCHANEK: Dr. Singletary. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes and yeah it was Dr. Singletary, but he. SUCHANEK: In fact, Dr. Singletary hadn't been here too long just a few years. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah that's right yeah because he was still trying to, you know, John Oswald was here before Dr. Singletary and we had a lot of we had a lot of things we had to straighten out and I guess that wasn't one of them at that time (laughter - Keightley) (laughter - Suchanek). But anyhow you know finally you know they removed, forced retirement. Now you can't do it anywhere. If you really want to get in a problem you relieve somebody because of age; you going to have a problem (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: You'll be in court. KEIGHTLEY: That is if it's a wrong person. But he, he was a no he was a hands on man. SUCHANEK: How did he run a practice? Would he have a meeting at the beginning, call the players together and say what they were going to do that day? KEIGHTLEY: Oh I tell you what, when they hit the floor it's not like now you didn't have out how many minutes you were going to work on six and eight and ten you didn't have that. You went out there with an open mind and just worked on the fundamentals as it seemed, as it deemed to be necessary. And that's another change. See now we have, we have a program when we go out every day and just like I left the floor here a few minutes ago we were about, we were about twenty minutes behind schedule. But you know he was a hands on coach and he worked them until he believed they had enough and he called it off. But by the same token in his tenure we also had freshman teams, so they practiced after the varsity. You know you could bring in three high school all Americans and he, he couldn't he couldn't play for you on the varsity team. SUCHANEK: Was that a rule or? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah that was a rule. Freshmen were not eligible until I believe it was 1974. Now, now however, during the, the World War II year's yes they did, freshman could play, but then after the war the freshman rule was back into effect. SUCHANEK: And now when you recruit freshman they want to know how many minutes they're going to get. KEIGHTLEY: It's, it's I'm gonna tell you that's the NCAA wants to do a bunch of things and I say the NCAA I'm talking about the NCAA is the coaches and athletic directors of America; that the best rule you could ever put in today is to have a true freshman team. Let the kids get adapted to college life. Most of them of course back in those years most of them the first time they was ever away from home was when they came here to school; now with society being a little more maybe looser than it used to be. SUCHANEK: Well and all the AAU teams and summer teams. KEIGHTLEY: Yes oh yeah we have all of that. SUCHANEK: I mean those teams travel around the country now. KEIGHTLEY: But you know these kids came in as a freshman and didn't have to worry about how many minutes I'm going to play because they'd go play freshman ball. In fact, Coach Rupp didn't much want to play a sophomore. He wanted you to that experience in a sophomore having never played freshman ball or having never played varsity ball he felt was inexperienced and might cost you a game. But now, you know, these kids expect, expect to play. SUCHANEK: Right away. KEIGHTLEY: Right away, right now and by you know we start the season now; it used to be when Coach Rupp was here you didn't play your first game until after December 1. But now you know we've already played one exhibition getting ready to play another one and we'll play regular NCAA games starting the next weekend of the13th and 14th. So that, that's the way the thing is, but it, it would, it would be of great benefit to a kid number one academically to get adapted to how to use his time. And you know now we have to they have to get twenty hours of tutorial help in CATS. And it's well I guess the thing you really, really like to see is how kids mature by the time they come to the university as a freshman and what they are when they leave. SUCHANEK: If they stay four years. KEIGHTLEY: Yes it is yes. It's a real learning process. SUCHANEK: Was Coach Rupp a strict disciplinarian? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yes, yes, yes he was a strict disciplinarian and it was easier for him back then than it is today again because of the change in society. In the earlier years you could have tryouts for players. You could bring them in you know like over at alumni gym and, and have a scrimmage on Saturday. Let them play against each other, all of the prospects and then you could weed them out. But see you can no longer do that, but back then when a kid got a scholarship, he, he wanted to make sure that he did not lose that scholarship because that might be his only way to get an education. Now today they don't worry so much over it. SUCHANEK: But the implication part. KEIGHTLEY: You can qualify for all kinds of student loans and things that were not available back at that time. SUCHANEK: Well I think a lot of the players who come in today don't think they're actually going to stay four years. KEIGHTLEY: Oh no, no, no they don't. SUCHANEK: So the educational part is secondary. KEIGHTLEY: That's right, yes that's right they think they're not going to need the education. SUCHANEK: And it doesn't even matter if you are Rajon Rondo or Carlos Toomer you think you're going to the NBA (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). KEIGHTLEY: I tell you Jeffrey you got, you got a good memory. And speaking of that (laughter - Suchanek), the latter one of those he was in town last year. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: Still trying to find himself (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: I remember just as an aside when he was, when he was Coach Pitino wanted his teammate (laughter - Suchanek). KEIGHTLEY: Gosh damn it you're up I went with Rick to see that it was the kids name was Davis he wanted in Mississippi. I went with Rick we went to play Mississippi State and Rick and myself and somebody drove us to see the Davis kid play and Carlos was his teammate and I mean to tell you Carlos was big about 6'4" and had a great body man he was up and down that floor and Rick thought he had found a diamond (laughter - Suchanek). Well the other kid opted for Old Miss I believe and never did pan out and we you know we had recruited Carlos and here he came and that was all of it he just come to school here (laughter - Suchanek). And never did want to leave was the reason he came back last year and hung around here. He tried going to California to be an actor and tried to write books and was a very pleasant young man yes (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley); very, very pleasant. SUCHANEK: That recruiting ploy didn't work. KEIGHTLEY: He still trying to find himself (laughter - Suchanek) and it's about time (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: How did Coach Rupp treat you? KEIGHTLEY: Oh well Coach Rupp you know he treated everybody, everybody the same. He had you know he had his own little personal business people group that he stuck with, but he was okay with everybody he really was. SUCHANEK: I mean did you feel like you were just, he was treating you like just a staff member or friend I mean was his personality was it warm and fuzzy or? KEIGHTLEY: He, he, he treats you like he treats you like today we'd call him a CEO of a business. Yes you know. SUCHANEK: And you were an employee? KEIGHTLEY: He'd have a job for you, but you don't necessarily need to have to socialize with him every time you leave the building. And that's, that's kinda the way society used to be a little bit more, but he had a bunch of great friends here in town. They're all they all over the years became really good friends of mine; Bob Lutz and Louie Ades and Dr. Angeloosey. SUCHANEK: Ralph Angeloosey? KEIGHTLEY: That's right and, and they, they and, and they all became really good friends of mine. SUCHANEK: But you didn't have a real, you didn't have a real close personal relationship with Coach Rupp like you did with Coach Pitino or Coach Smith? KEIGHTLEY: Well that's, that's right as I say you know, times, times changed and that's the way it was, but he was always, always congenial. And you know in fact Harry didn't go with Coach Rupp if he was going out with Louis Ades or Dr. Angeloosey it's just the way times have changed. SUCHANEK: If you could talk about a little bit the relationship between the basketball program and the football program. You know at one time we, we had Coach Rupp and Bear Bryant here and I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see some of their, their coaches meetings if they ever had them. But it seems like you know, how did Coach Rupp relate to the football program? KEIGHTLEY: Well you know Coach Rupp there, there was never any animosity there except again the media kind of got in touch with that and the stories make the rounds about Bear Bryant getting a cigarette lighter and Coach Rupp getting a Cadillac (laughter - Suchanek). You know that and but that you know that Bear Bryant was naturally his record needs no defense. He came and really didn't stay that long and. SUCHANEK: Do you think he left maybe because he, he could see that perhaps football would always be secondary to basketball here? KEIGHTLEY: No I don't think, I don't think in rating the sports that that was the reason he left. I think he probably was aware and of course hopefully one of these days it will all change but recruiting you need to really be able to recruit well in football a very populous state helps you know. I mean, we've got maybe say three hundred high schools here in Kentucky and Ohio's got thirteen hundred. And you know if, if you've got the talent in your state you got a better opportunity to get them so if there's a good player in Ohio, the opportunity for us to get him and the best odds we can get be four to one. So I, I think that entered into it because we were not a populous state. SUCHANEK: And yet Kentucky's turned out a lot of good basketball players. KEIGHTLEY: Well yes sir we have and, and another thing in the early years with, with Coach Rupp you know a guy at one time could perfect his game of basketball on his own. You know up in Eastern Kentucky you could put up an outside goal and go out and work on your two handed set shot and, and you could perfect your game. But the game has changed so much; now due to the influx of the African American athlete which now that the sport is more highly competitive than ever before thanks to the African American. And at one time as I say you had basically you had three shots; you had the two handed set, you had the crip shot as they called it back then, and then you had a free wheeling shot that was introduced by Frenchy DeMoisey in 1936. That was where you'd spin around and shoot a one handed shot. That, that was a, that he, he invented that shot for basketball. So in the early years like Coach Rupp used to say he could take a he could take a truck up in Eastern Kentucky and come back loaded with guards. And he had a, you're right he had a bunch of great, great players from the state of Kentucky. And then also he had some great players from out of the state of Kentucky such as the big guy over your head there Dan Issel and Louis Dampier and Kyle Macy and. SUCHANEK: But usually didn't stray too far like today Coach Smith is recruiting people in California he's recruiting you know Rick Pitino would recruit heavily in New York City. Back then recruiting lines weren't that far were they? KEIGHTLEY: That's right. Again we get back a little bit 'course by 1970, 1972 when Coach Rupp left, yes travel was somewhat easier, but back we'll even say in the 50's the plane that we flew the team in was an old DC-7 and it was called Padua Airlines. And you know it, it just it was just a little bit faster than driving, you know it didn't have to stop for the traffic signals (laughter - Keightley). So it, it recruiting was more, was more local. 'Course we got Cotton Nash out of, out of Louisiana and but. SUCHANEK: But those were more the exceptions than the rule. KEIGHTLEY: Yes more exceptions than the rule, yes. I, you know on the fabulous five of course we had Alex Groza from Martin's Ferry Ohio which is, which is not that far away. You know when you get to where Ashland you're not too awful far from it. SUCHANEK: But back then you wouldn't have thought of recruiting in California would you? KEIGHTLEY: No, no and we had Bob Brannum who was an All American here that transferred after Alex Groza came back from the service and Bob went to Michigan State. But on that on that fabulous five you had Wallace Jones from Harlan, you had Kenny Rollins from Wickliffe, you had Cliff, you had Cliff Barker from, from New Albany Indiana, and course Ralph Beard from Louisville, and some of the reserves was Joe Holland from Benton Kentucky; yeah you're right, you're right Jeffrey. We had a had a lot of Kentuckians. SUCHANEK: You sure did. In fact I think, I think there's pressure on, on, on even the current coaching staff to have at least a few native Kentuckians, right? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah sure and now you know occasionally people especially the older population maybe complain a little bit because we don't have those Kentuckians on the roster like well another one was Jack Tingle from Bedford, Kentucky who was a great player here. SUCHANEK: Hey coach. Since Coach Smith just stepped in it reminded me of you know Coach Rupp has gotten this reputation of not recruiting African American players here in the 1960's and as you mentioned way before he came here in the 1920's or 30's he had, he had had 1920's he had had an African American on his team prior to coming here. Do you think that's a bad rap? KEIGHTLEY: No it's, it's you know what Jeffrey it absolutely one hundred percent is. I don't know I don't know how that can be. You know what they these people that want to say that they need to go up, go up east and to Clair Bee and Joe Lapchick and the guys up there that were coaching at the same time as Coach Rupp. They also didn't have African American players and, and I guess in the reason they want to think about Kentucky which was a border state, but they wanted you know they want to group it in the south and they think because it was in the south that you know you had to be a racist school I guess. I don't know I really don't really like to talk about it, but I know I, I just know it's the furthest thing from the truth and the people today Jeffrey that wants to write about it did not know Coach Rupp. And that may be one thing that's unkind about history 'cause a man if you know if he's no longer alive. SUCHANEK: Okay (laughter - Suchanek). In this interview, Keightley talks about working for legendary coach Adolph Rupp. He discusses his personality, innovative style of play, discipline, and reputation. He recalls differences between Rupp's time and the present in recruiting, playing styles, and attitudes towards the academic life of players. He concludes by again denying allegations that Rupp was racist because he did not recruit African-American players during his tenure at the University of Kentucky. UKAW; University of Kentucky Men's Basketball