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2007-2-5 Interview with William B. Keightley, February 5, 2007 AF008:2005OH115A/F745 01:09:05 William B. Keightley Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries University of Kentucky -- Basketball. Basketball players -- Kentucky. Dickey, James. Sutton, Eddie. Sutton, Sean. Mills, Chris. National Collegiate Athletic Association -- Discipline. Keightley, William B.; Interviewee Suchanek, Jeffrey; Interviewer keightley_af_0745 1:|20(6)|31(2)|64(8)|93(12)|107(26)|129(21)|151(2)|175(2)|205(23)|228(3)|236(21)|255(13)|274(3)|296(11)|313(6)|327(11)|345(1)|374(13)|391(23)|406(3)|440(5)|444(21)|462(15)|477(8)|481(14)|485(29)|514(6)|524(14)|549(9)|568(15)|588(3)|607(15)|625(12)|645(26)|656(12)|684(20)|704(10)|734(17)|756(20)|764(3)|786(2)|802(14)|820(2)|834(24)|849(1)|862(32)|877(3)|895(9)|912(8)|941(14)|952(20)|977(23)|991(19)|1012(6)|1041(2)|1074(2)|1088(7)|1117(12)|1139(23)|1189(4)|1205(21)|1228(8)|1249(19)|1275(23)|1297(15)|1315(21)|1354(9)|1363(13)|1391(10) audiotrans BKeight interview KEIGHTLEY: Are we... SUCHANEK: And we can. You're all, you're all set up. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah! Hell, I didn't know you had me in the chair buddy. SUCHANEK: (Laughter) You're in the hot seat! KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Today is uh, February 5, 2007. My name is Jeffrey Suchanek, and I'm sitting here in Mr. William B. Keightley's office. Uh, this interview is part of the Charles T. Wethington Alumni/Faculty Oral History Project. Um, and, Mr. Keightley, I thought we'd start today and talk about uh, we were talking about when Eddie Sutton was here. KEIGHTLEY: Oh. SUCHANEK: And, I wanted to talk about the assistant coaches that he had here. We talked about Leonard Hamilton already, uh, and I'm not sure if we talked about James Dickey. KEIGHTLEY: Uh, yes, uh, James Dickey is, is along with Dickey Parsons, is uh, one of the assistant coaches that really had a lot of input into the success of the head coach's team. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Uh, James was kind of uh, the glue guy with Coach Sutton. Uh, James called me last Monday, which is kind of ironic that we get around today to talking about uh, the assistant coaches. Yes, he called me last Monday, because he was so very pleased that we had beaten the University of Tennessee. And the reason being, they went into Tennessee this year and had a very bad experience (laughter-SUCHANEK) between the two teams. SUCHANEK: Where's he at? Where's he at? KEIGHTLEY: He's, he is uh, at Oklahoma State, now. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Oklahoma State, see Oklahoma State... SUCHANEK: Oh, so he followed... KEIGHTLEY: ...lost their first game to Tennessee this year. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: But it was a fact that that, Tennessee had treated them so very rudely. SUCHANEK: The fans or... KEIGHTLEY: The, the, the well, I think they were speaking of the administrative people. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: Maybe, maybe, you know, taking it to the top, maybe the, the head coach at UT was not very uh, ... SUCHANEK: Accommodating? KEIGHTLEY: ...very hospitable. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I, I think there, there was something there, because I do know that after that game was pretty hotly contested. And Coach Sutton made the statement that maybe we shouldn't play Tennessee in the very near future again. SUCHANEK: And that was Sean Sutton? KEIGHTLEY: That was, that was Sean's dad, Eddie. SUCHANEK: Oh, that was Eddie Sutton? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that was Eddie that said that. SUCHANEK: Oh, Okay. Okay. KEIGHTLEY: But back to talking about James Dickey. We, you know, he... SUCHANEK: So, he followed, he followed Eddie Sutton then, to Oklahoma State? KEIGHTLEY: Y-yes sir. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Sure did. Yeah, he uh, and then he uh, went from Oklahoma State to Texas Tech., and, he was there about five years and then now, Bobby Knight succeeded him... SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: ...at Texas Tech. But James had uh, had quite a bit of success now, at Texas Tech. He's a very, very competent coach. SUCHANEK: Mm-huh. KEIGHTLEY: But uh, now, after he, he had, he stayed out a year after the Texas Tech bought his contract out, and James went back to Oklahoma State where he's now an assistant for Sean. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, he's back where he, where he uh, started from. And then, Saturday, we played in Arkansas, and uh, I had made the statement in front of someone from the media you know, that I'd worked with Eddie Sutton and James Dickey, and some guy with one of the newspapers came up and gave me a, you know, a short interview about James and Coach Sutton. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But, but James is, he's one of my very favorite people in the world. He always calls me every Christmas Eve ever since he left here. SUCHANEK: Mm. KEIGHTLEY: You can always expect a call from James. When James was here, he was single. He had never married. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he married the all-time leading scorer in basketball at the University of Arkansas - young lady by the name of Betty Fiscus. And uh, they now have two children. One of them is a sophomore in college, and the other one's in about the sixth grade. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, but James is one of the, one of the people I enjoy talking about, because he had one brother, and they all live in Arkansas. And his brother, Randall, is maybe New Mexico State or one of, one of those colleges out west. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And uh, ... SUCHANEK: So, he's from Arkansas originally? KEIGHTLEY: But he's from Arkansas. SUCHANEK: Is that how he got hooked up with uh, Eddie Sutton to begin with? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh, That's right, yes. And uh,... SUCHANEK: Was he a high school coach in, in Arkansas? KEIGHTLEY: You know, dah, to best of my knowledge, no, he didn't. James was, was a, a really a skilled player for his size, but you know what, I don't recall the history on where all he, where all he played. But he.... SUCHANEK: He played uh, University of Central Arkansas. KEIGHTLEY: Okay. You got that. SUCHANEK: Yeah, I just got a short bio here on him. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Well, it's a, but he's a very, you know, a very, was a very skilled player. And really a big help to Eddie, because he was a good X and O man. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. So, James Dickey was sort of the communicator then between the players and the coach? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he was. Yes, he was a lot of help to Eddie. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You know, at that period of time Eddie needed a lot of help. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. Would you say at any time was uh, when uh, when, when, when Coach Sutton was, was having his problems that, you know, James kind of took over coaching the team? KEIGHTLEY: Well, as we'd like to say, I guess, Jeffrey, that he was uh, kind of the glue that kept it together. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: He never ever, you know, stepped over his bound, because uh, in this business head coaches are pretty sensitive about people trying to maybe, help them a little more maybe than they should. SUCHANEK: (laughter-SUCHANEK) They only want... KEIGHTLEY: But James was never a threat to anyone, because he, he, he knew what, he, you had to be a role player. Let's put it that-a-way. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Your successful assistant coaches are role players. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: They do the very best and try to help the program in every way they can without stepping up on the head coach and make him think maybe that he's being second guessed. Which... SUCHANEK: Happens from time to time. KEIGHTLEY: It happens, it, it does happen. SUCHANEK: Well, you know, you can see the fact that um, after Coach Sutton left here and went to Oklahoma State there, there was a loyalty between the two. KEIGHTLEY: That's right. Yes, sir. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Of course, Coach Sutton was out of coaching also a year, ... SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: ...after he left here. SUCHANEK: I didn't remember that. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh-huh. SUCHANEK: Uh, yeah. He went to work for a shoe company, didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he was uh, an advisor for Nike. He was always real tight with the administrative people at Nike. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Which at that period of time, back in the 80's, Nike was a little bit of a, kind of a, more of a family than I would say they are today in the year 2007. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Course, you know, we're spanning twenty years there SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: So, naturally things have changed, but they were a little more family oriented, and there was a lot of loyalty between uh, that group of people, and that's the group of people that I recall the most. SUCHANEK: And they stuck by Coach Sutton. KEIGHTLEY: They stuck by Coach Sutton. That's right. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You know, today, they pull contracts on people. SUCHANEK: I'm sure. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: How difficult is it for, speaking of assistant coaches, for them to, to make that leap from an assistant coach to a head coaching position, when they interview for a job? Is that a difficult transition, you think? KEIGHTLEY: I, I, I think that's uh, I think that too is, is uh, an issue of not trying to come across too strongly to the people that are interviewing you. I would think. Uh, you don't want to, you don't want to leave the impression that you were a lot better coach than the man that you'd been working with. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And, you know, they, they do like to know what would you bring, you and different, but by the same token, I think you've got to walk the tight rope in that situation. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: 'Cause you, you don't want somebody to come along, you know, that's really a hotshot. I know, I know people that have interviewed, I'm going to say, for high school jobs. Oh, they'll go in, we'll say like, Rick. He had a person working for him that uh, was a high school coach in this state. He went up to work with Rick, and Rick is uh, likes to move his personnel about every two to three years. He'll tell you that, head up. But, now then, this guy, when he got ready to try to get a job, he applied for every big job in this state. He'd wear his Celtic outfit, take a video with him, two or three basketballs, and a resume about six inches thick. Now, look, these people are not going to give you time to go through all of this kind of, this kind of thing. So, therefore, you slam the door on yourself before you ever get out the gate and don't realize it. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They should just go... KEIGHTLEY: And I know in this particular, this particular thing I'm talking about, the athletic director at this big high school in this state, he got up and left the interview before it hardly got started. SUCHANEK: Really? (laughter-SUCHANEK) KEIGHTLEY: Because, you know, they, they uh... SUCHANEK: He knew it wasn't the right fit. KEIGHTLEY: That's not what, no, that's not what they want. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: They just want a good honest open opinion without theatrics. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) That's what they want. SUCHANEK: And for some of these coaches, that's hard, isn't it? (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, yes. But it's, coaching is a different, different profession. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: It's something like I told you before, you learn from everybody. Well, you learn from everybody you're associated with. Like you taught me, this morning about kamikaze. See, so, I learned something. (laughter-SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: How 'bout uh; Doug Barnes was also an assistant coach. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, well, yeah. [Phone Rings] KEIGHTLEY: Now, let me see, I hope, let me see who. Where is that thing? 272, be on there for another twenty minutes. (laughter-SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: Talking about Doug Barnes. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, Doug Barnes. Yeah, Doug Barnes. Doug Barnes was a very successful college coach at uh, uhhh, I guess, probably division three. SUCHANEK: Yeah, University of Arkansas at Monticello. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he had a, had a very good record. SUCHANEK: Well, actually his record wasn't that good. It was 105 and 142. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: But it says here in the, in the... KEIGHTLEY: But he... SUCHANEK: ...press guide that it was deceptive. (laughter-SUCHANEK) KEIGHTLEY: Because he built 'em into a power. And um, first year that he was here, that team won the national title. SUCHANEK: Really? Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Yeah. But uh, Doug, too, was much like James Dickey in that he was such a great person. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Uhhh, Doug, you know, never, he, he never forced himself up on anybody, very personable, very caring man, and uh, when uh, Eddie left here, Doug never did leave this town. SUCHANEK: Really? He's still here? KEIGHTLEY: Doug is in this town and he's doing, now, he's doing some uh, radio work for uh, 630. I don't you know, what, I don't, is that WLAP or what it is now, ... SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: ...but it's 630. He does some radio work for Dick Gabriel, uh, and also owns the Pop-a-Lock franchise. SUCHANEK: Oh, OK I've seen that. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he owns that. And he's, he stayed in town, as I say, and at one time he had some of these uh, basketball, let's see, what'd they call that thing? Pot-a- shot - that's where it was a small basketball, you had to insert quarters into the machine to take maybe three shots, to see how many you could make. Pop-a-Shot! Pop-a-Shot! Instead of Pop-A-Lock it was Pop-A-Shot. SUCHANEK: OK Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he had those for oh, maybe three or four years. Did quite well with that. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But uh, no, he stayed right here in Lexington. And is a really a highly thought of individual. See him, I, 'course I see him every home game. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he still, you know, he still cares about Coach Sutton. Is always concerned like everybody else that every worked with him. SUCHANEK: His short bio says that he uh, uh, played under Coach Henry Iba, Hank Iba. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh, Doug. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Right. Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. That's old 'Hold the Ball Hank' as Adolf called him. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) SUCHANEK: How about Wayne Breeden? KEIGHTLEY: Wayne Breeden, now he, he was one of my boys. I mean he worked with me as a manager. And, speaking of Wayne Breeden, also on Monday, by golly, he called me. You know, he uh, he had uh, uh, stayed here as a graduate assistant for one year, and then he went out and he was with Doug uh, Rick Barnes, Rick Barnes. I believe at James Madison. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: And... SUCHANEK: Barnes eventually went to Texas, didn't he, Rick Barnes? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he's at Texas, now. SUCHANEK: Yeah. Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes. He's at Texas. He was there, also he was at Providence, one time. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. Okay. Right. KEIGHTLEY: Think he was the guy that took Rick's picture down from the hallway at Providence College. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) Caused somewhat of a furor on one front, I don't know. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) but, uh... SUCHANEK: Well, maybe it, maybe it was the size he didn't like. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) KEIGHTLEY: But uh, Wayne left, I believe it was James Madison, and he went to Lindsey Wilson as an athletic director. SUCHANEK: Oh. KEIGHTLEY: ...And coach. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But uh, they, they were still you know, at the uh, well, same classification Georgetown is now. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: They just had transformed from a uh, junior college to a four year school. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: And he... SUCHANEK: Is that NAIA? KEIGHTLEY: NAIA. Yes, sir. NAIA. Uh, he uh, stayed there about three years, and uh, then he, he moved on and joined Kyle Macey at Moorehead. And now, last year since Macey resigned there, 'course you know, at that level you always have to move on, because the next guy is gonna bring his people. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So Wayne is back to coaching high school ball. Although, he did coach at Ashland after he left Lindsey Wilson for about three or four years, and he had a team in the state tournament a couple of times. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: And then he went to Moorehead, and now, this year, he is in Owensboro, back in high school. And uh, at the beginning of basketball practice this year at Owensboro which is rich in basketball tradition over the years, he had at his disposal six players. SUCHANEK: Wow! KEIGHTLEY: Because all of the rest of the players were, the athletes, were playing football. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And they had quite a good football team and lost out late in the, in the uh, in the uh, division playoffs. So, he really did not have a full team together until about December the 10th. But now, they are rated right at the top of that, that region. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Because he called me the other day to tell me, I mean they're 14 and 5, but they are improving every game. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And now, they're probably going to be favored to win that, that region. SUCHANEK: I think there's what, two or three high schools in Owensboro? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, you got Apollo... SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: ...and Owensboro Catholic, SUCHANEK: Right. Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: So he coaches at? KEIGHTLEY: Owensboro High. SUCHANEK: Okay. So there's three? KEIGHTLEY: What's that? SUCHANEK: Is, is, is that three high schools, or... KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, yes, yes. SUCHANEK: Okay. Okay. Looking at the '86-'87 roster, and we talked about Rex Chapman um, I don't think, and I think that's where we left off last time. How about Derrick Miller? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Derrick, yes. Derrick Miller, that's uh, that's another story. (laughter-SUCHANEK) He uh, was a very unusual kid. He came, he attended some Baptist high school in Georgia, and really never had a lot of home life. Was uh, reared mostly by his grandmother. And Derrick was truly one of the great shooters in the country... SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: ...in high school. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he visited here. He was about 6'5", 6'6", weighed about one hundred seventy pounds, had a, had a very unusual walk (soft laughter-Keightley). He kind of loped along when he walked, but he could run like that guy from South Africa used to run, (unintelligible). He could run. He ran, you know, forever and ever. You know how long it took somebody to break a four minute mile. SUCHANEK: Right, um, Ryun. KEIGHTLEY: Old, old Derrick, I saw him here when we were conditioning. 'Cause we used to take them to the track to run. He ran a 4:02 mile. SUCHANEK: Wow! KEIGHTLEY: Could run all day, because he would, his stride would cover about six, seven feet. But he, he, you know, the change to college basketball was always tough for everybody, but for someone that hadn't had any guidance, it's almost a mountain they can't climb. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And we nursed him along, [Phone Rings] KEIGHTLEY: and he, he made, and he made normal progress, but finally about in his sophomore year, Coach Sutton had worked with him, worked with him, and Derrick was always close to me. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Because I was always very frank with him, and he was always close to him. So, after a game one night, down at Rupp Arena, Derrick was pouting. He was prone to pout if everything didn't go just exactly his way. Coach Sutton come in to me and he said, he always called me, "Mr. Keightley, I'm gonna give Derrick Miller to you. He's yours from now on." So, Okay. The next day, we just let it go at that, and the next day Derrick came in and I took him into the training room. The training room was locked. I unlocked the door, and took Derrick into the training room. And I said, "Now, Derrick, you, you, you, you told Coach Sutton last night you going home." I said, "What are you gonna do when you get back to Savannah, Georgia, but stand on the, on the corner with nothing in your pocket but your two hands?" (laughter-SUCHANEK) I said, "What are you gonna do?" He said, "Well, I'm, I'm gonna get me a job, and I'm gonna buy my grandmamma a house." I said, "Well, let me tell you something. If you're gonna buy your grandmamma a house, you'd better get your act straightened up here, and try to make something out of yourself, although, at this time, it don't look like it's possible." Well, Derrick starts to cry. Okay. As it would be, Eddie opened the door, and there, there's Derrick, sitting up on the training table there. He's crying. (laughter-SUCHANEK) Coach Sutton looked at him, just closed the door and left. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) Well, you know, we, we, we nursed him through that one, and he went along, he played with Rex, and he was always thought Rex didn't like him, and, and uh, Rex, we would always kid about it. And, you know, I'd say, Rex, to Rex, I'd said, "There, there's that guy you don't like." 'Course Rex would just laugh about it. But uh, anyhow Derrick, you know, he, he'd get something would happen in practice at Rupp Arena, he'd get all pouty, and wouldn't even ride back with us. He'd walk. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) You know, he was immature. SUCHANEK: Wow. KEIGHTLEY: And, and uh,... SUCHANEK: If I would have done something like that... KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: ...in my high school team... KEIGHTLEY: Gosh. SUCHANEK: ...I would have got kicked off. KEIGHTLEY: Well, yeah! (laughter-Keightley) But uh, no, but he belongs to me now. I gotta kick him. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) But uh,... SUCHANEK: But at least you didn't have to with him! (laughter-SUCHANEK) KEIGHTLEY: That's right! And I wasn't going to - that's for certain! (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) But anyhow, we kept nursing him along, and Rick got here, and to this day I'm certain he still owns the record for the most threes in a game. He... SUCHANEK: I was gonna... KEIGHTLEY: ...had unbelievable range! SUCHANEK: I-I remember, Pitino's Bombinos. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Yes. He had unbelievable range. But anyhow, you know, on, on Senior Night, 'course he, his dad, nobody knew where he was or what happened to him or whoever. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he brought his mama in for Senior Day, and I was his father. (laughter-SUCHANEK) But I still hear from him. He, he'll still get into little things sometimes he shouldn't, but he all, uh, the reason I know that is because he always calls me and tells me how good he's doing. So, I know immediately there's a little something that's gone on. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) But I give him credit. He stayed here. And the one thing about him, he was always one of the neatest appearing persons. You know, his, his hygiene and his looks and his clothes. He always laundered his own clothes, starched them and ironed them. SUCHANEK: Be careful now. You don't want to be Joe Biden and say he was articulate and clean. (laughter-Keightley and SUCHANEK) KEIGHTLEY: Yeah! How 'bout that, yeah, Joe Biden. God dang. (more laughter) SUCHANEK: His campaign started and stopped the same day. (more laughter) KEIGHTLEY: All of it was over. That's the way, yeah, that's the way to restart your career. (laughter-KEIGHTLEY and SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: That's right! His campaign began and ended the same day! (laughter continues) KEIGHTLEY: That, that was pretty, that was pretty neat. (laughter begins to fade) Yeah. But uh, yeah he's still employed here, doing that thing as we covered the other day. Kenny Walker works for that guy, selling that advertisement for those uh, ... SUCHANEK: Oh, okay. KEIGHTLEY: ...for those books they put.... SUCHANEK: Now, does he live here in Lexington or does he live in Louisville? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he's, he 's lives here in Lexington. SUCHANEK: Okay. Did he ever get his degree? Do you know? KEIGHTLEY: You know, that's open for debate. (laughter-SUCHANEK) I have, I have told people he got his degree, because he did come back to school on that Cawood Ledford Scholarship. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But I asked Bobby Bradley one time, and I haven't checked in the last six months or so, he had one paper he had to send in. And, so, I was uh, erroneous in telling someone that he had his degree, but if he hadn't, he, he, it's just a matter of just an hour or two. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: So I really can't say, but I, you know what, I'm going to check on that today. SUCHANEK: Why don't you give him a call and tell him to... KEIGHTLEY: g-g-g, yeah... SUCHANEK: ...get that paper in? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. (laughter-SUCHANEK) Yeah, he, yeah, he'll get to feeling good, and he'll call me. Well if things are really, really going good, he calls me "Boss", but I can tell when things are about to go bad, he calls me Bill. (laughter-SUCHANEK) He really getting very personable... SUCHANEK: Attuned, right? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, very personable. First name. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) Oh, Lord. SUCHANEK: You get, you get attuned to these little changes, don't you? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) You know, he does a little things there, you know what I mean, it's shouldn't be printed or anything, but like he'd, he is pretty good salesperson 'cause he'll talk pretty good, you know. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You kind of want to, you kind of want to believe people the best you can. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, he goes out to one of these car dealers, interested in buying a car. So, they let him take it for drive. He never did take it back! He kept it about a week or ten days, they finally found him. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) He'd gotten you know, (laughter-KEIGHTLEY) so that's the kind of guy we were dealing with. SUCHANEK: Wow. Wanted to ask you uh, during this time um, when Coach Sutton was here, um, did his problems with the, with drinking get progressively worse? And how did that, did that affect the team at all? Did they know what was going on? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yes, they, they, they were aware of it. Especially, especially you know, the last, the last year. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And yes, it got worse, because you know, the wheels were just coming off. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And I guess, you know, it was a way of escape for him. I guess. SUCHANEK: So when you were talking about, you know, James Dickey, and even yourself, you all were kind of the glue that held everything together. KEIGHTLEY: Well, we, we did the best we could. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You know, and to this day, I'm still really, really loyal. You know, I can't tell you, Jeff, how many times in Eddie's tenure here, that people who were my friends would ask me, "Is it true? Has Eddie got a drinking problem?" And then, you know, the first thing I'd think, "Hey, I'm you friend. I wish you wouldn't ask that." That's me thinking. "Do you think I'm going to tell you and not tell anybody else?" SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, I had one stock answer, "If he has, I have not seen it." I didn't see him do it. I was aware,... SUCHANEK: And that was true. KEIGHTLEY: ...Yes, I was aware, but I did not see him. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: Which was true. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And to this very day, until Eddie left and admitted that he had a drinking problem, I didn't even tell my wife and my daughter. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: They found it out from Eddie Sutton. 'Cause I, you know, I didn't think there was any need for me to tell them. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: It wouldn't improve Eddie, and it wouldn't help me, and I just, I just, you know, that's how loyal James and I both were. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. Of course, you're not working for the Lexington Herald-Leader. KEIGHTLEY: No, that's right. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) That's right. SUCHANEK: You're not looking for a scoop. KEIGHTLEY: Nope, no, I don't. No, Sir. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) SUCHANEK: Talk about the, the Chris Mills situation. You know, how, what, what was that all about? KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know, as I say, I-I'm not uh, I know I have my, my thoughts about it, and uh, I can't say that the situation didn't exist, but there's something that's uh, I really never understood about the thing. I do know the guy that paid the price for it, Dwane Casey, and he was found innocent. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he got a settlement from the, Emery. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: And uh, I know I gave a deposition, and if, if uh, apparently, they didn't find this envelope with the money in it, but, but I know in, deep in my heart that Dwane Casey didn't send it. And I, I, and, and I'm always thought that, I know James didn't send it. I know that. And I've always felt Eddie didn't send it. Now, who sent it, and I guess it was there. I don't, I don't guess they could ever prove, you know, it was planted. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But how that thing popped open, and how that newspaper got it is always led me to be a little suspicious. SUCHANEK: Well, UCLA was mentioned in that... KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I know,... SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: I know. See, he, they really wanted him. Chris Mills was a great kid, too. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And a very, very skilled player. Yep, to, to this day, he's, I'm still very, very fond of Chris Mills. SUCHANEK: Now, he, he had a little bit of an NBA career didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he did. He stayed around probably, I guess he played five years or so. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm KEIGHTLEY: Last time I saw him he was playing for the Knicks. We were in New York to play somebody. That's the last time I saw him. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But he, see, he was uh, he was reared by a man that actually, I don't think his father, uh, and uh, he had a, I'm trying to think of, Claude, Claude Mills,... SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: ...was supposed to be his father. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. But uh, Chris did not, I met his brother. They didn't look anymore alike than myself and Chris. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And uh, but he was a good student, never asked for anything, and was a tremendous player. Probably, probably as physically as tough as any player we ever had. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And it's a shame that thing came along, because it did, it hurt his, he needed his college career. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he really never did reach the heighth of what he could. SUCHANEK: Because there was this cloud over him? KEIGHTLEY: Well, yeah. There's always that, you know. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And uh... SUCHANEK: Where's he at these days? KEIGHTLEY: You know, they uh, as I say, I-I really do not know. Uh, the last time I saw him, of course, he was with the New York Knicks. So, I don't know if he, I'd say he probably returned to California. SUCHANEK: Okay. Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But you know, I never, never hear about it anymore. I, that's something, that's another thing, I need to ask John Lucas. You know, John uh, worked with that NBA drug program. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: Because he'd suffered, from, from a problem himself. SUCHANEK: Right. And turned his life around. KEIGHTLEY: And of course, he was a tennis, yes, and he was a tennis player, and a, a great man. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely, and of course we've talked about Dirk Minniefield who now works for him and, I think we also discussed the fact that I've got Dirk's ring here in my drawer. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: We talked about that didn't we? SUCHANEK: No! What? You got Dirk's.... KEIGHTLEY: A guy, a guy, a guy by the name of Jim Obradovich, Jim Obradovich. SUCHANEK: That sounds like a football player. KEIGHTLEY: He was a baseball player. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: He played, he's in that book over there 'cause I, I got it out and checked it. SUCHANEK: The encyclopedia? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he's in the encyclopedia, but he was a, he was a catcher, and he played with Houston for just, just a few games, but he lives in Florida. And he kind of an unusual, kind of an unusual guy. I could tell that. He came in here about a month ago, and I could have been talking to you. Could have been one of those days. And he'd waited outside, finally came in to see me. He said, "I got something here. You know my hobby is, I live in Florida now." And he said, "I take one of these metal detectors, and I go out and see what I can un..., you know, unearth." SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And he said, "I found something, and I've tried to get in touch with this guy, but I can't, I can't run him down." And I said, "Well, what are you talking about?" He said, "I got something that belongs to Dirk Minniefield." And so, he, he pulled it out, and shows it to me, and it's uh, it's Dirk's ring from 1983. And uh, Dirk 'course is working for or with John Lucas. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And I haven't been able to get Dirk's number, and I wanted to send Obradovich... Well, that's, ... SUCHANEK: I'd like to know the story about that. How that ring got to where it got. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, we would like to know. SUCHANEK: My gosh, how many rings do you have in there? KEIGHTLEY: Well, there's Minniefield's. Minniefield, right there. This is mine, here. SUCHANEK: Well, look at that - 1983. THIRD PARTY: The show must go on. KEIGHTLEY: What do you say? SUCHANEK: Well, I'm sure... THIRD PARTY: Right, the show must go on, mustn't it? KEIGHTLEY: It's, it's... [Recording Paused] KEIGHTLEY: Well, don't know how? Where are we? SUCHANEK: Well, we were talking about Derrick Miller. Uh, once, you know, you were talking about the Emery package. And, I mean, I've tried to open those kind of packages, and you can hardly get them open... KEIGHTLEY: No, you can't. SUCHANEK: ...without using a knife or scissors. KEIGHTLEY: 'Course, you know, no longer have Emery, but any of these that come in here, you're right. You can't tear them open. Now what has perplexed me is how anybody would put a thousand dollars in a package and not seal it properly. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: It makes you, you know, it leads to suspicion from me that that package had help somewhere along the way to pop open. SUCHANEK: I'm sure with your connections around the country, you must have been, you must have had an inkling, you know some rumors anyway, of, of what, what was going on. KEIGHTLEY: What, well, uh, yeah, but after that, yeah, but they, you know, there was always one person, you know, round here that some people wanted to point a finger at, but I couldn't point a finger at him, because he told me it absolutely was not him. So, that's it. SUCHANEK: That was Dwane Casey. KEIGHTLEY: So we, you know, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know. I, that still is a mystery part to me. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: I uh, ... SUCHANEK: What, what about, what, you know, that, that added to this uh, and we have to face it, you know, that added to the, this reputation of UK being an outlaw kind of program. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, well. Hey, you know what? A thousand dollars amounts to nothing in destroying a reputation, you know. Or, a thousand dollars would be really, really cheap to knock a recruit out of playing for a ranked team. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: It'd, it'd make that up in, in one gate draw. SUCHANEK: Seems like, you know, if, if UK was set up by somebody, they wanted to set them up, but they didn't want it to cost them a whole lot. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, that's right. You have, you've hit on it, Jeff. That's, see, that's the reason I still, still suspicious. And I uh, as I say, I'm, I'm positive that uh, well not positive, but our coaching staff, and I know, you know, James Dickey, or Doug Barnes, or Jimmy Dykes, or none of those people would ever think about doing that. And neither would Eddie, because he didn't have to. SUCHANEK: Now, I forget, was the Emery package, the return address, was from UK? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yes. SUCHANEK: Oh, Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes it was, yes. SUCHANEK: Okay. I didn't know if maybe a, if a booster maybe was a... KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know I think it was stuck in with a maybe a VCR, you know, one of those little VCR tapes. And I think it was supposedly stuck down inside there. So, what, you know, what it was is something that was sent to, I think it was sent to Claude. It was uh, uh, maybe a tape about what, one of the games that uh, Chris had played in where he played real well. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And it supposedly was sent, you know, for Claude to view. SUCHANEK: Once the, once the news broke, about this, what was the reaction here in, in the basketball program. KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know, I never... SUCHANEK: I mean, did you, did you know that that was going to be um, that that was, immediately that was going to be a big deal? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, you know, I went along and went along for well, say, a few weeks without knowing that it was going to happen. And finally one day James Dickey come in. He said, "Mr. Bill, I got something to tell you. I don't know really how to tell you." But he said, "It's going to hit the newspaper, and we've done everything we can. And we, we, we don't know how it's happened, but we, we got the NCAA, and we've tried to keep it quiet, and uh, but it, it's, gonna hit." And he say, "We just got to dig a trench and, and get in here and fight this thing until we can come up with some conclusion on to exactly what happened." SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, you know, we ran out of time. SUCHANEK: Did you have an inkling that um, that this would be the end of uh, Eddie Sutton's uh, tenure as coach at that time? KEIGHTLEY: Uh, it, it, uh, well, course, you know, we had the other problem. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: And I uh, when those things surface you, you, uh, when you already have another problem, it's uh, it's almost a uh, certainty that, that, that thing is going to happen. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: He's gonna have to move along. SUCHANEK: So that '88-'89 season must have been a season in hell. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, it was a tough year. We had LeRon Ellis that never panned out like we had hoped he would, but who, too, was a, was a fine athlete, but never reached his potential. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But, a he was uh, his dad, uh, Sam, was an NBA player, and a great guy. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And, and he uh, he passed away, maybe while LeRon was here. That, that part I can't really remember. But he was very congenial and helped us and Eddie with, with uh, LeRon. SUCHANEK: But, I mean it's, that whole season this, this cloud is hanging over the program. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yes, yes it was, yes. It really was. SUCHANEK: How, how hard was it to, you know, to keep the players focused? KEIGHTLEY: Well, it, you know, it wound up we weren't very focused, because we had uh, I guess uh, one of the biggest losing seasons we ever had. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Uh, you know, we had then, the uh, had the uh, the Eric Manuel thing. You know, it also surfaced. SUCHANEK: Now, what was that about. I forget what that was about. KEIGHTLEY: That was about an ACT test. SUCHANEK: Oh, Okay. I remember that now, right. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: So there was a, a combination of things happening here? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, a combination I mean it just snowballed from everywhere. And it was, it was really just more than you could contend with. SUCHANEK: Now, the NCAA contended that, you know, that UK had lost control of the program. KEIGHTLEY: That's right. Yes, yes. SUCHANEK: It was a runaway program. KEIGHTLEY: Institutional control. SUCHANEK: Right. Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: That's what they finally, that's what they slapped us with. SUCHANEK: What did you think of that? KEIGHTLEY: I-I'll tell you what they, it, it wasn't for the lack of control. Uh, these are situations to this day, you know, that was one of the most severe penalties that's been passed out in recent years. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And, and I read every, every year of something that will supersede what happened here, and, and the schools go right on. I, I don't know whether it's a fear now of a court case, you know. Individuals can file a grievance and sue and maybe in today's society they could get a huge settlement. So, I don't know if that has maybe tamed the NCAA down where they are more tolerant of obvious violations or not. I'm talking about like Lou Holtz admitted at Notre Dame. He gave; he gave players five hundred dollars. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Now we, you know, we lost a year of revenue and not being able to participate SUCHANEK: In a tournament. KEIGHTLEY: In a tournament for a thousand dollars that we don't know where it came from. Yet you've got a coach that goes on and leaves Notre Dame, goes over to South Carolina and coaches, and today on ESPN. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, there's something out of balance here somewhere. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, uh... SUCHANEK: Did you think, did you think, um, that the program was, lacked institutional control? KEIGHTLEY: No, no, I do not. SUCHANEK: Is that just one of those catch-all phrases? KEIGHTLEY: Let's, when everything else fails, let's just make that. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Let's just make that charge - Institutional control. SUCHANEK: Did you think that...First of all, what did you think of President Rozelle's reaction to what was going on? KEIGHTLEY: You know, there, there, there's a man who I greatly respect. I, I really thought he handled the situation with, with dignity. He was uh, he was in a position where he had to, had to do the right thing. SUCHANEK: And he was getting a lot of pressure from the governor at that time, Wallace Wilkinson... KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yes. Yes, sure, yes. SUCHANEK: ...to keep Eddie Sutton here. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. But uh, Dr. Rozelle was a well meaning individual, and uh, I have all the respect in the world for him. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: I do. I'll tell you. I'm going to tell you why. At, at the very height of Eddie's, before he resigned from here, it broke on the news that Coach Sutton had told the president of the university that if he would let him get rid of his entire staff, that he would do that in order to stay. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Well, the, that broke on the news, and I remember. I was watching TV and heard it, and I heard them mention my name. And uh,... SUCHANEK: As a source or what? KEIGHTLEY: It wasn't, it wasn't, Mrs., Mrs. Sutton called my house to say that absolutely was not true. And the next morning, real early, Dr. Rozelle called me and he said, "You know what? Whatever happens here, happens here, but I'm going to tell you one thing, you going to be here." So, you know, that was encouraging to hear. SUCHANEK: Oh, so your, your name was one of the ones that would be let go? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, right. SUCHANEK: Oh. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, and that meant James Dickey, and Doug Barnes, and Jimmy Dykes, and... SUCHANEK: The whole kit and caboodle. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, the, but, you know, Eddie didn't do that. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: That was just, Alan Cutler was the biggest dog in that fight, if you know who I'm talking about. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: So, it's, but I, you know, I heard it on TV, (laughter-SUCHANEK) and it's one of the few things I've ever heard on TV before somebody else told me. SUCHANEK: Were you worried as soon as you heard it? KEIGHTLEY: No, you know what, I didn't. No, I did not worry, because I knew that naturally, I hadn't done anything, and I knew, that I had, I thought I had the backing of the administration. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Because, you know, my loyalty and dedication. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And never really no, I really, really never worried. SUCHANEK: Do you think uh, President Rozelle had any choice? KEIGHTLEY: No, i-i-it uh, uh, you know, I look back, Jeff. No, it, it had to be. It had to be done. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I uh, you know, he's still at Delaware, you know that. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And I recall, maybe the year now, 1992, whatever... SUCHANEK: Well, it wasn't too long after. KEIGHTLEY: Huh? SUCHANEK: He, he left here not too long after that. In fact,... KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that's right. Yes. SUCHANEK: ...the, the governor basically ran him out. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, he, he left. Yeah, to go to Delaware. Uh, but I... SUCHANEK: I think he's happier there than here. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yeah, well, he, he is. Uh, but I'm trying to you know, think of the year now. Those years kind of get muddled up. Maybe it was '92. Whenever we played Duke in, where was it? Philadelphia? SUCHANEK: The Meadowlands? KEIGHTLEY: Nooo. SUCHANEK: No? KEIGHTLEY: It was, this was in Philadelphia, I think, in the NCAA tournament. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: I believe it was Philadelphia. I'd have to go back and check it out. Uh, but, when we went to the arena for the game, we stopped the bus outside, and we were, were getting of the bus to go in to play, to play and Dr. Rozelle was there to greet us. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: It was maybe '92. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: That's what I'm thinking, 1992. Dr. Rozelle was right there to greet us. And occasionally, uh, you know, I, I, I hear probably in a round about way somebody has seen him and where he's asked about me here. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You know, something of that nature. 'Course they uh, they, they've been, I don't what if it was last year or the year before, they had a pretty fair basketball team; made the tournament. SUCHANEK: The Blue Hens. KEIGHTLEY: The Blue Hens. (laughter-SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: You know, they, they used to uh, I think they, they may still be, but uh, one, two, one, two A or uh, in football and, they used to have a pretty good football team. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, right, yes. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Every time you think about the Blue Hens, I think about the Toledo Mud Hens. SUCHANEK: Right. (laughter-SUCHANEK) KEIGHTLEY: Old AAA baseball. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) SUCHANEK: You know, you were talking about um, Duke, and I remembered that before Eddie Sutton was hired, Mike Krzyzewski was mentioned as a possible...Oh, no. After Eddie left, Mike Krzyzewski was mentioned as a possible replacement for Eddie Sutton. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Remember last time we were talking about uh, Lute Olson and some of the other people... KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, right. Yes. SUCHANEK: What, what, chance do you think that Krzyzewski actually considered coming here? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, I, you know, at that time uh, Mike wasn't the name he is today. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, I don't know. I uh, it's hard to say. We're talking about how many years? About nineteen years ago. SUCHANEK: Yeah, I mean do... KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I mean, I know he was at uh, Indiana with Bobby at one time, but he at that time, he was not, he was not the force that he is today. SUCHANEK: Doing credit card commercials on TV. KEIGHTLEY: Right. Yes, and, uh, this year he's not quite doing as well as normal. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So he knows how the other half may have to live now. (laughter-SUCHANEK) 'Cause he lost two in a row. SUCHANEK: Oh. KEIGHTLEY: And I believe maybe, I don't know if they were both at Cameron or no, I guess one of them was on Virginia's home floor. SUCHANEK: Yeah, I know they lost to Virginia Tech earlier at home. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that was Virginia Tech, I believe, yeah. SUCHANEK: Right. Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But uh,... SUCHANEK: And then I saw Virginia Tech lost to a team that, just this week, that I didn't think they'd lose to. I forget who it was. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, I saw the same thing. Yes. SUCHANEK: And I thought that was odd. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I mean they've had a heck of a year. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And then, of course, Leonard Hamilton beat them yesterday. SUCHANEK: Oh, I didn't know that. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Yeah. Florida State beat 'em in Cameron. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: By one. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So another one of my old boys made the big time. SUCHANEK: Do you know Mike Krzyzewski at all? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yeah. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Yes, I do. SUCHANEK: Have you ever talked to him about...? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, na, na, na, I talk, I've talked every time I see him. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: You know, it's like, was it, oh, I guess it was year before last. That uh, what the hell's his name, J. J. Reddick? SUCHANEK: Yes, uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: The great shooter. SUCHANEK: Right. He's not getting very many minutes in the pros. KEIGHTLEY: No. (laughter-KEIGHTLEY) But anyhow, we went to uh, practice in the NCAA tournament. It's always uh, they always have one practice, [Phone Rings] KEIGHTLEY: where everybody is uh, anybody can come to the practice. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, (unintelligible) (laughter-SUCHANEK) and anyhow, I go out, and I'm just sitting there and watching Duke. And Mike sees me sitting there, so he comes over and sits down. And you know, we're just bantering around, because the fans, fans are in the stands watching the players and so forth. And I'm watching Reddick. And I just said to him, I said, "Hey Mike, where in the hell did you find J. J. Reddick?" He said, "Well, don't tell anybody in Kentucky, but I found him up at Harlan." (laughter- Keightley and SUCHANEK) So, he's uh, he's uh, he's different than he seems to be. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: You know, he always looks like he's so uptight. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Boy, he can, he can run that mouth not hardly as bad as that guy I read you about there in the paper, but he can run her pretty good. (laughter-KEIGHTLEY and SUCHANEK) Which you would not suspect. SUCHANEK: Right. Exactly. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. (laughter-Keightley and SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: So, you know, is he more likeable... KEIGHTLEY: Oh, I... SUCHANEK: ...and personable than he seems to be? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. I like the guy. Yeah. Yeah, I, I do. He's uh, but, you know, that's another, you know, organization I really don't understand. Uh, he has more assistant coaches to get in trouble than any, any coach that I've ever known. SUCHANEK: Mm. Once they leave there, right? KEIGHTLEY: Once they leave there I don't know where they've learned. (laughter-SUCHANEK) He has great discipline on them when they're at Duke. SUCHANEK: And they just go astray. KEIGHTLEY: But boy! When they get away from there they really go astray. (laughter- SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) Yes, siree. SUCHANEK: Maybe they're rebelling. KEIGHTLEY: I bet you that's it. Nobody's going to tell me what to do. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) SUCHANEK: Well, I think the uh, we'll end today with the, with the Sutton era coming to a close, and I'm just wondering, you know, um, when Coach Sutton announced that he was resigning, I guess that wasn't a big surprise to you. KEIGHTLEY: No, not, not really, you know, given with all of the little events that unraveled, and ... SUCHANEK: Now, he tried to stay. Didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yes. He, he, he did. Yes, he tried to stay. And, course, you know, I just saw where he said he wished he could take back that statement. "He would crawl to Kentucky." SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Now, you know, I don't know how much good that would do, at this time, to make that statement. You know, sometimes you try to rationalize, you know, what people are thinking. I don't understand what he was thinking when he said that. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Because it don't undo it. (laughter-SUCHANEK) SUCHANEK: And he's, he's not, he's not interested in another coaching job. KEIGHTLEY: Nope, that's, so I don't know. SUCHANEK: Yeah. It's strange. Did he come in and say good bye to you? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've uh, yes. You know, I've talked to him on the phone. Yes, sir. SUCHANEK: I mean the day that he,that he resigned. Did he tell you first? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Sure did. SUCHANEK: When he told you that he was going to resign, what did you tell him? KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know, I just uh, I just said, "Well, Coach, you know, I want to thank you first for being a great person for me to work with as an individual," which he was. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: I don't think Eddie ever told me one single thing to do, in four years. He let you do what you were supposed to do. SUCHANEK: He figured you knew, after all those years, you knew what to do, and he just let you do your job. KEIGHTLEY: That's right, and he just left me alone. That's the kind of guy he is. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And uh, so, but, you know, I've never, I've never lost contact with him. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: In fact, Rick told me that uh, Sean Patrick, his son, you know, when we were going through that change, Rick come in here and course, Sean Patrick still had a couple of years to go... SUCHANEK: Right. Right. That was controversial, too. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and, and uh, Rick told me that uh, Sean, he was with Sean on a plane, and Sean asked Rick if it would be okay if he stayed here to play for him, or would he want him to stay here to play for Rick. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And Rick decided it would be the best interest in Sean's behalf to move on with his dad. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm KEIGHTLEY: So, that, I mean, that's what Rick told me. SUCHANEK: Well, see, that was another controversy, too, when, when Coach Sutton was still here when his son was the starting point guard. Wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: He uh, yes he moved up the ladder. Yes. Yes. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. You, you look, you know what? You can't coach your son at this place. I mean, I've felt sorry for Tubby and Saul. It just, you know, you just opening up a can of worms here. Hey, you can do it at Georgia. You can do it at Tulsa, but don't do it at Kentucky. SUCHANEK: Unless you win every game. KEIGHTLEY: Herky Rupp, who was not a bad basketball player, and you know, just a walk on, he, he dressed for a couple of years. And if they put him in the game, you'd hear that criticized. And he's only going to play in the last minute and a half. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: But that was criticized. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. What kind of player was Sean Sutton? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, Sean was a fine point guard. SUCHANEK: He's a little... KEIGHTLEY: Very, very good point guard. SUCHANEK: Little slow, though, wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: He was good enough to, he was good enough to play. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: It just, he couldn't... SUCHANEK: He wasn't the quickest guy, though, was he? KEIGHTLEY: No, he wasn't the quickest guy, but he was uh, he had so much court savvy. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: And uh, no, he wasn't, no, he wasn't the quickest guy in the world. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So, uh,... SUCHANEK: Did you, did you feel bad for him? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yeah, I always felt bad for Sean. I, you know, in, in, I uh, you know, I still, man I just, I hate to see him lose, 'cause he is so intense. I uh, he doesn't have his dad's personality. His dad was a very personable man. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: His dad was a great athlete, also. I-I went uh, I know we had here, I guess it was for the opening of a baseball season. Keith Madison was here. We had uh, Eddie Sutton, Jerry Claiborne, and I don't know who else, went over to have a Home Run Hitting Contest (laughter-SUCHANEK) to attract a bunch of people to a game. Well, I'm telling you, Eddie Sutton can knock the whey out of the ball. Not only that, he used to pitch in college, and he could throw the dad-gonedest curve... SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY:... you've really ever seen. Even at that age back then, which was twenty years ago. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: So that means he was about uh, he was nearing fifty. SUCHANEK: Mm-hmm. KEIGHTLEY: He could still throw one of those big, old, jug handle curves. SUCHANEK: Like Satchel Paige. KEIGHTLEY: Start it way out there man, and bring her in. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) SUCHANEK: That it, there's, baseball players, professional players have, have descriptions of that kind of curve ball, but we can't repeat it here. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. (laughter-SUCHANEK and Keightley) Right. Yes. Yeah. SUCHANEK: It's a little bit more vivid than calling it 'Uncle Charlie.' (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) KEIGHTLEY: One thing about it, it wasn't a fast breaking pitch. It kind of hung out there then come in at ya'. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) SUCHANEK: That, that worked at the college level. Didn't it? (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) KEIGHTLEY: That's right. Yes. Yep, that worked there. (laughter-SUCHANEK and KEIGHTLEY) SUCHANEK: Okay, well, I think we'll stop for today. KEIGHTLEY: Okay. SUCHANEK: Alright, thank you. Keightley talks about the turbulent Eddie Sutton era. Much of the interview focuses on assistant coaches in the program, in particular James Dickey. He discusses the snowball effect of the rumors of Sutton's drinking problem, a player cheating on his ACT, and a payoff to Chris Mills resulting in NCAA suspension, that led to Sutton's dismissal as coach. UKAW; University of Kentucky Men's Basketball