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Interview with William B. Keightley, October 9, 2007

2007-10-9 Interview with William B. Keightley, October 9, 2007 AF008:2007OH198A/F752 00:57:47 William B. Keightley Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries University of Kentucky -- Basketball. Basketball players -- Kentucky. Basketball -- Coaching. College athletes -- Recruiting. Magloire, Jamaal. Sheppard, Jeff. Camara, Souleymane. Keightley, William B.; Interviewee Suchanek, Jeffrey; Interviewer keightley_af_0752 1:|10(20)|14(5)|20(31)|28(5)|36(15)|43(27)|47(5)|50(26)|61(4)|69(28)|87(12)|97(3)|118(3)|128(7)|141(5)|145(24)|151(14)|169(15)|173(27)|184(14)|192(13)|218(6)|226(6)|237(12)|248(18)|255(9)|262(6)|281(8)|284(8)|291(25)|306(3)|321(2)|336(15)|360(9)|371(5)|389(2)|403(11)|426(3)|440(22)|459(5)|469(18)|486(9)|500(31)|514(27)|525(21)|535(17)|560(33)|582(30)|590(26)|597(23)|621(5)|640(20)|658(17)|669(17)|680(9)|694(9)|701(13) audiotrans BKeight interview SUCHANEK: Well, here we go. It's October the 9th. This is Jeff Suchanek. I'm interviewing Mr. William Keightley in his office in Memorial Coliseum and we're gonna talk more Kentucky basketball this morning. Some of these folks that we were talking about last time in the '97 team, I don't know if we, we've mentioned Jamaal Magloire a lot, but I'm not sure if we've talked to him, talked about him in great depth. Tell me about Jamaal as a person off the court. He had a, he had this persona of being a rough player on the court. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. (Laughing - Keightley) Well, you know his persona off the court was much the same. SUCHANEK: Oh. KEIGHTLEY: He was just as.... He was just perceived as being a kind of a rough and tumble guy, when in actuality, he, he was a, was a decent to good student and he, he was actually congenial, but it just, as you say, it just, the way he was perceived on the court carried through with his demeanor off the court. And he, he actually, as I've stated before, I really didn't appreciate what he brought to the table until after he was gone, and there, there are many players like that; that at the time you probably don't see the, the, the really good things they do to help you to win. And, you know, like, like the old saying, "perception becomes reality", and that's in the mind of the people, so that's somewhat the way Jamaal was, but he was definitely a force as a college player. And I wish today we had one just like him. Because if we did, we'd be, we'd be here in this year of 2007, 2008, we would, could be a contender for national honors. SUCHANEK: That team that had Cameron Mills, Jared Prickett, Scott Padgett, Nazr Mohammed, and of course Jamaal, who on that team, was it one person who gave the team more of its personality? You know, that was really kind of a blue collar; they brought it every night kind of team. KEIGHTLEY: Well, we, we had there, Jeff, we had two guys on that team, one of 'em was a quiet leader that led by example, and that being Jeff Sheppard. And then you had another, another person like Scott Padgett, who was a, was a good talker and, and a great team player, and, you know, not afraid to discuss anything that came up, and he, he was very instrumental in the success of that team. And we had great role players, such as Allen Edwards, Heshimu. They were all great role players. And that, you know, Heshimu, Heshimu is still playing in, I, I guess, Italy. Then Padgett, he may be about the end of his pro career. He would like to latch on, actually, one more year, but... SUCHANEK: Sure. KEIGHTLEY: ... he's had; he's had nine good years. SUCHANEK: You know there have been, and we've talked about this a little bit before, a lot of players who've come to UK who haven't been, you know, considered as Dick Vitale would call "diaper dandies" or, you know, those kind of elite players. But yet these players have gone on, like Keith Bogans and Scott Padgett and Mark Pope, Jamaal Magloire, maybe not as much talent as, natural talent, as a lot of these other players, marquee kind of players. But yet they have long careers in the pros. Why is that? KEIGHTLEY: Well, because one of the factors in athletics today that is totally overlooked is work ethic. Yeah, they, they look, as you say, the, the gurus look for that talent that anyone can see that people are so talented, they really don't have to work hard or think they don't. And consequently, sometimes the bloom comes off of that, that rose. Because they don't have that work ethic, these guys such as you mentioned, because of their solid work ethic every day, they are fundamentally sound and therefore they have long careers. SUCHANEK: How much is that a product of the UK system? You know, someone like Keith Bogans from DeMatha High School comes with a big reputation, everyone expects him, I think he was probably one of Dick Vitale's "diaper dandies" and yet he doesn't have that kind of college career and yet he's still is having a nice pro career. KEIGHTLEY: I, I think when, when and this is not to say that other schools may not give to the athletes the same thing, but I, I think this program, the magnitude of it, is rather humbling and it, it probably makes you appreciate the fact that you're able to play in, in this environment. And yes, I think that plays a major factor in to so many of our ex college players have been successful in, in the pros. You know, we, we don't have really; we don't turn out hotdog players. We've always somewhat tried to keep everything under control and in perspective and we, we don't really, we don't really cater to guys trying to be cool, try to look different from anyone else as you may see on a lot of college teams. That being by their dress apparel, game apparel, where they want all of the attention focused, focused up on themselves. We, you know, we, we do not cater to this sort of thing or have not to this point. We have never catered to that kind of a player. And the, the, the fans, the fans let you know about it, and I think that's maybe, gets through to the players also. I mean, you know, the, the, the call-in shows, if the fans see something that doesn't look right in the way of apparel, they let it be known. And so, it, it, I, I think that that's what, what makes these "diaper dandies," as the gurus want to call 'em, I think that's what here they've become more humble and realize that after all it is a team, a team game and without those fans in the stands, without their support, you know, your, your career may be short lived. SUCHANEK: Like Rashaad Carruth's? KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely. And you know how long he lasted. (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley). SUCHANEK: Now I don't, I've never been obviously on the recruiting trail, but, you know when the coaches that you've been with and you go into these, these parents' homes, what's the conversation like? I mean, obviously these kids are very talented, or Kentucky wouldn't be considering them. I guess everyone's expectation is to come here and, like you say, immediately start, when does the reality start to hit these kids that that's not the Kentucky way? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. That's, that's the.... Yes, we, we feel that we only recruit kids that fit our, our pattern of play and what our demands would be academically, we, you know, we, we just don't at Kentucky (phones ringing) really recruit projects. You, you, you really don't need to and then (phones ringing) we got many other schools the same way, the Carolinas and the Dukes (phones ring) and they, they, they don't, they don't cater just to (phones ringing) some, somebody that's a project. SUCHANEK: You've got enough problems without adding to it. KEIGHTLEY: That's right, yes you have. SUCHANEK: And there are some schools that, that, you know, I could think of that, that.... Used to be a school in Cincinnati a coach there who, (laughter - Keightley) (laughter - Suchanek) who would recruit some projects, wouldn't he? (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley) KEIGHTLEY: (Continued laughter) Which kind of, this is kind of humorous that you said that because no longer than yesterday Bobby Huggins, who now is at West Virginia, came on our premises here.... SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: ...along with an entourage to, to check out our practice facility. SUCHANEK: Oh, really? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and I found that kind of humorous, (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley) as the little, little things you'd like to say about that, but we'll leave it, we'll leave it unsaid. But... SUCHANEK: And there's a... KEIGHTLEY: I don't, he, he, he, maybe he should go by Keeneland and see if they got a horse out there somebody can beat on a little bit. (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley) 'Cause it takes a pretty tough guy to punch a police horse. SUCHANEK: Yeah. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) Is, is, you know, is Coach Huggins, I, I guess he's respected amongst his peers. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, yeah. SUCHANEK: As far as, you know, X and O's, but as far as the kind of players he recruits, you know, I don't know what kind of reputation he would have. KEIGHTLEY: Well, I think in his, you know, having read his statements and, he, he doesn't, apparently really didn't worry about academics. I think the record maybe proved that at his old school. But he, he really thought in his mind, I guess it's probably may be true, that he was preparing his students for a future in the NBA and it'd be a livelihood. And I think really in his mind he, he perceived himself as a professor that was turning out successful students. SUCHANEK: And he, and he had..... KEIGHTLEY: And I don't know, I don't, I don't know that I can argue with that at all. SUCHANEK: Some, some of them did go on... KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: to successful careers. KEIGHTLEY: and he's helped... SUCHANEK: And some that wound up in jail. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). KEIGHTLEY: Well, they're either in jail, out of jail, or case pending. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). SUCHANEK: And, you know, I think, and if, certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but I think John Calipari's kind of got that kind of reputation, too. KEIGHTLEY: We've got, you know (laughter - Keightley), yeah, well, yes I like Johnny, but yes, that's, they, they, they very much recruit out of the same mold. And you've got Memphis State, yeah, Cincinnati, they recruit the same type athletes, so, you know, it's never really been a problem for, for us, because we've never really recruited the same type athletes that, that they do. But they, you know, they have success and I, I really, really like John Calipari. And, and again, I, I think he's helped a lot of kids along the way. SUCHANEK: Sure. KEIGHTLEY: He's helped, he's taken kids that other people wouldn't gamble on and, and turned 'em into somewhat of a successful basketball player and able to earn a, a good livelihood and become good citizens. SUCHANEK: Of course, you know when you're at a school like that, now you know Cincinnati and Memphis both have, I wouldn't say a rich history in basketball, but they have some, they've had some success. But yet you've got to have something that, that brings talented players to those places and, and certainly UK and North Carolina and Duke and Indiana, Kansas, you know, those schools don't have to worry about the reputation. It's, it's tradition. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: And so, you know, these, these smaller schools who don't have that, they, they maybe have to take gambles like that. KEIGHTLEY: Well, that's, that's very true and you're right, the tradition, if they have tradition, it's, you know, it's not held in the highest respect, (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley) if they have tradition. SUCHANEK: Well, Larry, Larry Finch used to coach at Memphis (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) KEIGHTLEY: So, you know, it's... Well, again, like I've said a million times, we're, we're in a game, it's just called life. You know, everybody can't be alike, and there's a demand for all sorts of coaches of different persuasions. And I know that the coaching profession, all of them think they make a difference in, in kids' lives and they most assuredly do because during the formative years the, the coach has an opportunity to be the focal point of this young man's development physically and mentally and as a person. That's the, the big development years is eighteen to twenty-two, in my opinion, to try to get you on, on life's track. (laughter - Suchanek) SUCHANEK: And, you know, you've seen so many kids come through here, and so you've seen first hand this maturation pro..., process. The kid at twenty-two hardly resembles the eighteen year old that came here. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, you know, it's, it's totally amazing, and that's what really, really is gratifying. I, Like I told Billy Clyde yesterday, I, I wish were his age so I could relive this again, because it's, it's really gratifying to see every year you bring in seventeen, eighteen year olds, that's pretty much today they've had the free run with their parents and, you know, their high school coaches, and to see them year by year mature, you know, like, well, today we only have on our, on our squad two seniors, but I am really, really impressed with how much Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley have matured since the day they first came here. SUCHANEK: Well, you know, Joe went home. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. That's right. SUCHANEK: I think he's... KEIGHTLEY: Part of the growing process. SUCHANEK: Was that his freshman or sophomore season? I forget. KEIGHTLEY: That was, that was freshman. That's part of the, you know, the maturing process. And today, you know, they, they, they're respectful of everyone. They, they have no problems, no axes to grind, and they're, you know, they're on the road to, right road, to live the rest of their life and be productive citizens. SUCHANEK: How long does it take a player after he graduates to understand what he had here? Do some of them get it right off and, or does it take some time, some time to....? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, it's kind of like a debriefing thing. You know, they almost need to be put in a, a think tank for about two years (laughter - Suchanek) (laughter - Keightley) to really understand that you got to lay, for the most part, most of them are gonna have to lay the ball down. You, you've got some of 'em, and it's likely so, they still have a dream, but the, you know, the ones that capitalize are the ones that realize that they're not gonna be able to make a livelihood out of playing basketball. And I know, you know, it's, it's hard for them to give up, I know. I know, talking about baseball, I used to think, "boy, what will I ever do, if I ever get too old to play..." which, you know at about thirty-eight I, I thought I was, still had a lot of years left. But, by the same token I realized that I'm gonna have to give it up and, finally, you'll lay it down and go on to something else and if, if you've been successful as an athlete, you can be successful in, in the business world or at least get a position you'd be able to, to, to support your family and be a productive person in your community. And that's, that's, that's what I think that athletics promotes for the most part. SUCHANEK: And as you, we've talked before, so many former players have made Lexington or the surrounding area their home even though they're not originally from Kentucky. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yes, very true. Yes, they, they, well... SUCHANEK: Do you, do you suppose that's, that's the case in other, at other schools like North Carolina or Duke? KEIGHTLEY: I, you know, not having lived there, Jeff, I, I really wouldn't want to give an opinion on it, but I'll assure you that this community with the support of, of the fans that we have, and as I've stated before, not being a very populous state, I think, I think the athletes feel that, well as Tubby would say, "the love of the community". I, I really do. And these people, you know, they, they will give 'em opportunities. And I don't know if you went to, we'll say, St. John's, Long Island, Manhattan, or we'll say Boston U, I don't know if those people in Boston has that kind of love for their, for their athletes and support to help them get their feet on the ground and start to being productive. SUCHANEK: That's right, that's right. KEIGHTLEY: You got to get a door open first, and here it's no problem to open the door. SUCHANEK: That's right. Absolutely. You know, you're talking about a new crop of freshmen had just come in, do you sometimes feel like, having been a, in the Marine Corps, you're like a drill sergeant, and here come the new recruits, and, you know, over time you mold them into, into, you know, competent, mature soldiers sort of? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, we, you know, we went through a couple of weeks here just, just recently. Last Thursday was graduation day, but this is just, just a training period. Unknown: Hey, Mr. Keightley? KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir. Unknown: Looks like Tommy needs to get in here and visit you. KEIGHTLEY: Huh? Unknown: Looks like Tommy needs to get in here and visit you. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. OK, tell him, "come on in". Unknown: Well, I was talking about cleaning. KEIGHTLEY: Saying, which we just.... SUCHANEK: (Unintelligible) Go ahead. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, OK. ... which we just completed last Thursday and, you know, it, it was a tough training session and it lasted for two weeks, and 'course you know Marine Corps goes a little longer than that, but (Laughter - Suchanek) anyhow, as these kids, they laid her on the line, they did pretty well and 'course they're running in an air-conditioned building and that sort of thing. SUCHANEK: Not down at Paris Island. KEIGHTLEY: And we were running and crawling in that boiling hot sun on sand and you know, somewhat different, but, yeah, you know, like Coach Gillispie just asked me to say a few words to 'em upon completion and, you know, it's like I told them, "I, I, I appreciated their effort and, you know, they, their coming together as, as a team, and it was a training period and, and about sixty-two years ago I went through the same thing", not in air conditioning, but you know I was most certainly proud of it and to this day, you know, it, it made me a different person, there's no doubt about it, and them having experienced this, especially the incoming freshmen, it, it's something they can draw on later on in life, because they've been through something that's really tough. And yes, that, see that's, that's the things we get even out of athletics, and... SUCHANEK: Had these, had these freshmen ever been through anything as... KEIGHTLEY: Oh... SUCHANEK: ...physically tough, do you think? KEIGHTLEY: ...No, no, no, no. Toughest thing they've ever done is play a video game and (laughter- Suchanek) sit up till about three o'clock every night. That's the toughest thing they've done. (laughter - Keightley) (laughter - Suchanek) Then read the newspapers and decide who they compare with (laughter - Suchanek), and if you're not careful, you might make a statement as such. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) SUCHANEK: And find yourself running some laps. KEIGHTLEY: That's right, running some more laps. (continued laughter) Yes. SUCHANEK: You mentioned Jeff Sheppard and we've talked about him some in the past. Tell me about Shep and his leadership on the team and what he meant to, not just to just that team, but the program. KEIGHTLEY: Well, he, you know, he came here from Peachtree City, right outside of Atlanta, Georgia. His father was in the National Forestry Service, and he came from a well-disciplined family. I really, you know, Jeff Sheppard is one of the finest kids that I've ever known. He and Mark Pope who I've talked about previously, you, you can't, to this day, you cannot find a nicer, more humble person than Jeff Sheppard and he was the M, MVP of the NCAA tournament on a national championship team. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: He never knows anything but "yes sir, no sir". If he tells you he's gonna be here at 9:00 tonight, he'll be here at 9:00 tonight. I mean, not just last year to show you about his concern to help people, we ran into a little problem due to coaching change, and orders from Nike, and they didn't come in, and I had two days to get some shirts for our camp and Luke was involved in this, Jeff's got, he's got this company that sells apparel and he, he got me about, oh, ten, twelve dozen of double-X shirts, which I did not have a one and he had to get those things in from Cincinnati. He screened them up in London and, and Luke and Jeremy went to London to pick 'em up and they got stuck on I-75, they had a big tractor-trailer wreck, took 'em about six hours to get to London. (laughter-Keightley) (laughter- Suchanek). But you know what....? SUCHANEK: That's the growing process. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. But, but Jeff went out of his way, he didn't have to do it. I don't know anyone else that would have done it, but he wanted to do it because of his school. And that's, you know, that's a little insight into the type kid he is, and then, 'course that, you know, the year we, we won that national championship, he had the worst sprained ankle I've ever seen, and he stayed up two nights, all night long, in this training room. Well, I guess he'd take a nap, but with his foot elevated and taking treatment so he would, so he'd be able to play. You don't much get that kind of dedication. SUCHANEK: I, I remember that. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Somebody who saw that said there's no way he can play. KEIGHTLEY: No, no. And it was a high ankle sprain, which is the worst kind. But he laid right in there on that training table with that foot right up on the wall as high as it would go... SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: ...for 48 hours. SUCHANEK: What do they, how do they treat that? KEIGHTLEY: Well, all, all they did, Fast Eddie was the trainer, Eddie Jamiel. He, he, he gave it hot and cold treatment and just kept it elevated. And, you know, Jeff worked in that rehab, just because he wanted to play so badly. But he's a, Jeff is a, a real devout Christian. He's a great motivational speaker, a guy that don't ever look at a note. He just speaks from the heart. And even, you know, he'd talk to our team last year, and you could see they, they took to his whatever the theme was he was gonna talk about, they listened. You know, they wasn't thumping around, looking somewhere else, they were all very intent upon watching and listening to what Jeff had to say, because they knew this kid was for real. SUCHANEK: What's he talk on? What kind of topics? KEIGHTLEY: Well, he, he'll talk about championship basketball, he'll talk about the Bible. Hey, you name it. He'll, he'll talk about it and he, he will, he will involve real life situations in athletics to Christianity and vice versa. He's, he's just , he just talks from the heart. And he married a little old girl that played basketball here, the most perfectly matched couple I've ever known. (laughter- Suchanek) And he, he'd gone up there we'd talk about kids never leaving. He's, he's gone to London, Kentucky, near Hazel Green. That's where, where.... SUCHANEK: Is that where she's from? KEIGHTLEY: ...Tracy's from, his, his wife. SUCHANEK: So, that's where he lives? KEIGHTLEY: That's where he lives. Right up there in the foothills of southeastern Kentucky. SUCHANEK: And what does he do? He has, you said he has an apparel store? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he has this, this apparel company. He's in Walmart's. They sell, well, they sell polo shirts, all kinds of apparels, sporting apparel, baseball caps, special, you know, they, they 'course he has this screening process, and they, they, 'course they screen, well, hundreds and hundreds of tee shirts to whatever individual event you might be having and you've got some, something you want imprinted upon a garment, they, they're able to do it, and he's, he has really, really done quite well. SUCHANEK: Steve Masiello. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, (laughter-Keightley) that's, that's the that's the cool kid, came here as a walk-on. SUCHANEK: Not much talent. (laughter-Keightley) (laughter- Suchanek) KEIGHTLEY: No, sometimes, you know, we get those that don't have much talent, but... SUCHANEK: But want to learn how to coach, right? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Oh, oh, old Steve, boy, he came here, you know, New York cool and, and what was, was, hey, I loved his parents, but you know, again, we have the (laughter-Keightley) maturing thing we got to do. (laughter - Suchanek) 'Course he came from rather a, his parents were rather... SUCHANEK: Well to do? KEIGHTLEY: Well to do. We'll put it that way. But he came in here and he had a, at that time, he had a new SUV, and ol', ol', ol' Steve was so cool, he had his own, he had his own style of driving this thing. He'd set side-saddle in that front seat and, and hover over the steering wheel, be facing the passenger's side, (laughter- Suchanek) and looking straight ahead. That was his cool driving skills. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). It, I don't think he ever outgrew that one. (Laughter- Suchanek) Man, they had all the gold chains, but you know what? He was a good student, he, he worked hard, in fact... SUCHANEK: Why didn't.... KEIGHTLEY: It's, it paid off for him, SUCHANEK: How did... KEIGHTLEY: Because now, heaven forbid, he's Rick's top assistant. SUCHANEK: Right. How did he fit in here with, with kids from, you know, an urban area? KEIGHTLEY: Well, we, we, that yet remains to be seen. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) Maybe it's alright, New York, but I... SUCHANEK: How did he fit in here? KEIGHTLEY: It, it, it, I, I, don't know that you could go, like I'm going to Prestonsburg, Kentucky, tonight, I don't believe you can go in Prestonsburg wearing a big gold chain and maybe an earring. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) Go in and recruit. SUCHANEK: So, so you can take him out of New York City, but you can't New York City out of him. KEIGHTLEY: No, no, no. He's, he's kind of like the mountain boys, (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) you can bring him out of the mountain, but you're not gonna take it out of him. But, but Steve is, no, he's, Steve's a, a really a nice, nice young man. SUCHANEK: And student of the game, isn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he is, yes. SUCHANEK: I mean, I think he came here basically... KEIGHTLEY: Well, he did, he wanted to be a coach, yes. SUCHANEK: ...to learn how to coach. Right. KEIGHTLEY: They didn't have to worry about money, so he needed something to kind of fill in the void. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) SUCHANEK: Ah, Heshim..., Heshimu Em..., Evans, he came from Manhattan. What can you tell me about his transfer and, and recruiting him? And he seemed to be a real valuable sixth man. KEIGHTLEY: Well, he was, and it, it was... SUCHANEK: He had to sit out... KEIGHTLEY: I, I tell you, the, what, what, the reason he even wound up here, see, they allow college kids now to work basketball camps. So, he worked, he came here two straight years and worked Rick's camps. And he, he just felt, actually we, we didn't recruit him. He, he, he just was the one that asked if he could come. And he was willing to come as, as a walk-on. Because he just liked the area. And... SUCHANEK: And he had to sit out a year, right? KEIGHTLEY: That's right, yes. Had to sit out a year, and 'course he'd, he'd, he'd earned a scholarship and became a very intricate part of that '97 team. And, but another quality young man. And... SUCHANEK: What's he doing today? KEIGHTLEY: He's, he's playing in Italy. SUCHANEK: Italy? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, whatever the salary is, he's making it work. And he was, I saw him a couple of times this summer. He comes back to town. SUCHANEK: Was he a good student? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he was a, yes, real good student. Yeah, he and another young man from Manhattan came to work the camps, 'course the other one didn't, you know, he wasn't really a player, but Heshimu was a player. SUCHANEK: He seemed to be... KEIGHTLEY: And he played with our kids, 'course in the camp, even campers play with our players. And, he, he was, actually, he was just a Kentucky-type kid. SUCHANEK: He seemed to be a vocal leader. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he was, he was, that's very unselfish. That's, that's one of the first things you hope that you're able to teach a kid when they come here. Just to, you know, forget about the "I". SUCHANEK: Well, let's talk about Michael Bradley. KEIGHTLEY: Okay, yep, I'd say, yeah, Michael Bradley. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). Well, oh, you know that is, that is unique. You got a guy that came here that started every game, (continued laughter) won a national championship... SUCHANEK: And wasn't playing enough. KEIGHTLEY: And didn't get to play enough, and yet, you know what? He'd, he'd, he wasn't a, he wasn't really unselfish, or selfish person, I should say. He really wasn't selfish. His dad was somewhat selfish, but he decided that he was another Larry Bird. (laughter- Suchanek). SUCHANEK: He was a pretty good player. KEIGHTLEY: (laughter-Keightley) Yeah, he, he, he was a pretty good, yes, example there, if he could have lived up to it, but oh Michael had all kinds of talent. But... SUCHANEK: He transferred... KEIGHTLEY: He thought he worked hard, but he didn't work as hard... If he, if he'd have worked as hard as, we'll say as a Larry Bird, he might have been a Larry Bird. SUCHANEK: He went to, was it Villanova? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: And had a couple of decent seasons there. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he, yeah, he did okay. I've, you know, I hear from him occasionally. I, he married a young lady from northern Kentucky, and, and I attended his wedding, and, and, I hear from him occasionally. SUCHANEK: I don't think he had any kind of pro career, though. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he did not, no, no. He did not. I... SUCHANEK: Had he stayed here, he might have. KEIGHTLEY: He, now, right now I don't even... He, he may be trying to play overseas. I haven't, I haven't heard lately what, what he may be doing. He married quite well. I do know that. (laughter- Suchanek) So his, yes, (laughter-keightley) his father-in-law's got a devoted son, now. (continued laughter) SUCHANEK: Okay. How about Myron Anthony? KEIGHTLEY: Well, he, he never did, actually get his feet on the ground here. He had a lot of talent. But he, he, he never could really get himself adapted academically and he just, he had plenty of opportunities, and, but it was just, he was one of those kids that would have benefited if he had have stayed her, but he, he just couldn't pay the price to do it. You know, he... SUCHANEK: Academically or... KEIGHTLEY: What's that... SUCHANEK: Academically or even.... KEIGHTLEY: Ah, yes, oh yes, yes, yes. The discipline is, you know, we, we have enough discipline here that you're gonna, you're gonna feel it if you don't adhere to the policy and, and you know, he left here and really his career never did take off. SUCHANEK: Well, he was from Florida, right? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: And he went back to... KEIGHTLEY: He was from Florida, yes and one of the kids that worked with me, Sean Alteri is, was a real close friend with Wayne Turner, and he also, kind of, has taken Myron under, under his wing. He lives over in Anderson County and Myron comes back occasionally. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: But he, he, you know, he's still struggling, trying to find a place in society. SUCHANEK: I'm trying to think, he, did he transfer to Florida State or Central Florida, something like that? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yes, and I don't know which one he went to, Jeff, and, and I know his career never, never got a chance to take off. He had the talent, had the body. He really had a nice personality, but he never had any kind of a structured life and, and again, in that maturing years of eighteen to twenty-two, you know, that's, that's when you hope they find, find themselves enough to structure their minds to do what they're gonna have to do if they're gonna be able to function in society. And, 'course occasionally, you know, they, that happens, they just can't do it. SUCHANEK: Well, in his case, did he leave voluntarily, or was he kind of KEIGHTLEY: Well, he... SUCHANEK: ...told that... KEIGHTLEY: ...he left because, you know, his ... SUCHANEK: I mean, I mean, did he flunk out? KEIGHTLEY: ...his academics and he could see, he could see he wasn't going to play. We had, you know, we have a lot of really good, unselfish players that he couldn't see getting many minutes and 'course they all want to play right now, so... SUCHANEK: So, he didn't really fit in? KEIGHTLEY: No, he just, he just didn't fit in. SUCHANEK: Here's anoth... KEIGHTLEY: Like we talked about, you know, some, that's the trouble about projects, and sometimes there are projects maybe and you don't realize it till you get 'em, but we don't make that mistake much, now. SUCHANEK: Here's another guy that left and didn't have much of a career, Oliver Simmons. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Ollie, we went to ... SUCHANEK: (Unintelligible) KEIGHTLEY: ...Nashville to see a game between Ollie Simmons's team and, and Ron Mercer's, and that particular night, Ollie had about, oh, thirty points, yes, it looked like a great college prospect and his dad was originally from Kentucky. And he was highly interested in, in him becoming a Wildcat, so Rick liked him and so did I. And he had a, he had a chance to, to, if he had chosen to stay here, he had a chance to get some minutes, but..... SUCHANEK: But he wasn't really Kentucky-type talent, though, was he? KEIGHTLEY: No, he wasn't Kentucky-type talent at that time, because, you know, you look at that team how many of that group went to the pros. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: Ollie was just going to be a role player and get a few scattered minutes here and there. And he, he just decided that he'd, he would better himself to transfer, and he went to Florida State. SUCHANEK: That's right, he did. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. And, again, you know, he, I... Not, not too many people that we've ever had that transferred had ever really made a big, big splash on the, the national scene. SUCHANEK: Like Rodrick Rhodes. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. That's right. He drifted along as did Dwight Anderson from way out of the past. He tried Southern Cal and, but never did, see, none of them really ever made it in the pros. Rodrick tried. SUCHANEK: Had a couple of cups of coffee, didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: That's it. A couple of cups of coffee, but couldn't do it and Dwight, he, yes, I think maybe he tried a couple of teams but got cut early again, because he, he was not disciplined enough as, as, as a person to be able to pay the price to make it. Which is talking about Dwight Anderson, eh, brings up another thing here, I don't think we, we discussed, Dwight Anderson's mother and Dwane Casey's mother were sisters. I mean that's really, you know, you had Dwane Casey one of the, you know, just salt of the earth type person and then he's got a cousin that's, (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) they're the same blood lines and just can't function at all. SUCHANEK: I think every family's got that kind of line somewhere along in it (continued laughter- Suchanek and Keightley). KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yeah. (Speaks to unidentified person) "Come on in T...Tommy". SUCHANEK: How about Ryan Hogan? KEIGHTLEY: (Speaking to unidentified person) That's, that's, "Here, I'll give you this, this one, Tommy. How, is your wife sick?" Yeah, with Ryan Hogan, (laughter- Keightley) we just got through talking about Michael Bradley, well Ryan Hogan and Michael were inseparable. SUCHANEK: Oh, really? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, they were... SUCHANEK: And he came from Iowa, was it? Hogan? KEIGHTLEY: No, Hogan was actually from right outside of Chicago. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: But he transferred to Iowa. SUCHANEK: Okay, that's, that's correct. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, and 'course you, you full well know that, that... SUCHANEK: (Unintelligible) KEIGHTLEY: ...his mother was a sister of Kevin Grevey. SUCHANEK: No, I didn't know that. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, his mother was sister of Kevin Grevey. So he had, you know, some Kentucky ties, but, but Ryan came here, he had a, he had a bad knee when he came and could really shoot the ball, but unfortunately because of that bad knee, his, his career never really blossomed, but he, he really, really could shoot the ball, and, 'course he and Bradley transferred the same year. SUCHANEK: That's right. And he went and played for... KEIGHTLEY: One went east and one went... SUCHANEK: Yeah, I think he went to Iowa to play for the coach who was, oh, who, the guy that played for Bobby... KEIGHTLEY: Alford. SUCHANEK: Yeah, right KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah. SUCHANEK: Steve Alford. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Steve Alford. He went to play for him. Now...(laughter-Keightley) SUCHANEK: Do you ever hear from Ryan? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, yeah, I, I hear from, from Ryan, yes. We... (Laughter-Keightley) He's...I used to, I, I gave him a nick name, and I don't know why I did it. I guess it was because he and (phones ringing) he and Bradley were so close, (phones ringing) and kind of reminds you a little bit of, of, Andy Griffith and... (phone ringing) (laughter-Keightley) SUCHANEK: (laughter- Suchanek) Barney. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Barney. But I named, I named (phones ringing) Ryan, I called him Otis, you know (laughter- Suchanek) the guy that used to go lock himself up in jail. (laughter-Keightley). (laughter- Suchanek) No reason I should have named him Otis, but the last time I saw, no not the last time, but Ryan, eh, I...qualify for the NCAA tournament somewhere about five or six years ago, I believe it was about time Rick went to Louisville, but anyhow, I was at the same location, we, we are, and they got Ryan, interviewing him (laughter-Keightley) in, in the lobby of, of the arena where we were gonna play, and I walked by and I just hollered, I said, "Hey, Otis". (laughter- Suchanek) so, immediately (laughter-Keightley) all, all of the guys was asking him why they called him Otis, why I called him Otis. (continued laughter) But, even his....But they were, they were about like Andy and Barney. Well, but, but his career got cut short at Iowa, yes. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: Knees. It's knees, you know, this basketball, if, if you don't have good, good knees, you're not going to be able to play the game. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: Unfortunately, he'd had knee surgery, and it just never responded and he, his career was cut short from it, but, I, I think now he's working as a sports agent. SUCHANEK: Really? Where's he at, New York? KEIGHTLEY: I, he's, no, I,I think he's still back up in, in, near Chicago. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Back home. Yeah, his, 'course his grandmother was naturally Kevin's mother, but his, his grandma's a real good close friend of mine, as is his mama. SUCHANEK: How about Jules Camara? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, how about Jules? That's a... SUCHANEK: Yeah, well he... KEIGHTLEY: That's a good question. SUCHANEK: I think he was a, a sophomore or a, a freshman, he really looked like he was going to be a big contributor, but his senior season he kind of fizzled. KEIGHTLEY: Well, he, you know what? You're right, Jeff. Jules never did improve like I thought he would. SUCHANEK: Right, exactly. KEIGHTLEY: He, you know, he ran really well and... SUCHANEK: Could leap like a gazelle. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah, he could, but he just, he just never blossomed as I thought he would. I guess he had, you know, what we would say a journeyman career and, speaking of Jules, he's, he has been in town this last week. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: Now, he's, he's, of course, he's from Senegal. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: And his mother's a real lovely person, a beautiful lady. But, but Jules has been around here now for, why I don't know, seven or eight years. SUCHANEK: What's he doing? KEIGHTLEY: Well, he's, he's still trying to play basketball. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: He's played in every country. (laughter- Suchanek) And I don't' know how he even is able to get plane fare. He's, he's playing now in Iran. SUCHANEK: Wow. KEIGHTLEY: You know, hey, those camel drivers really love basketball. SUCHANEK: Do they? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, they really love it. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) But he was supposed to come by last, last Friday to see me between one and two o'clock, and I will give him credit, he called and said he couldn't get here. (laughter- Suchanek) But he was gonna come on Saturday. Well, he didn't come on Saturday, either. (laughter-Keightley) So I, I haven't heard from him. I'm assuming he had to go back to Iran. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). But, you know, Jules, he'd been here I'd say, he must have been here seven years, but he talks so fast, 'course I don't hear well to start with, but (laughter- Suchanek) I could never hardly understand a word he said. (laughter- Suchanek) And, and neither can, you know, the other kids. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: He just talks so fast. But ... SUCHANEK: Drinking too much Starbucks. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. (laughter-Keightley) (laughter- Suchanek) But I cannot believe a man playing basketball in Iran. Now you know (laughter- Suchanek), you know that's a polite way to say, "I'm unemployed", because there's nothing else you can say. (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley). That defeats me, but he's played in Greece and Turkey and, you know, those, most of those things are almost a myth. SUCHANEK: He's a, an international citizen, isn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that's it. He's an international citizen, speaks about three different languages. 'Course I guess I would, too, if I talked as fast as he did, don't (laughter- Suchanek) nobody would know what I was saying, so... (laughter-Keightley) SUCHANEK: You know, it's gonna be, coming here to Kentucky with the tradition, you have Kentucky kids who've grown up with that tradition, it must be really difficult for someone from out of this, not just out of the state, but out of this, out of the, the states, out of the United States, an international player to come here and play. KEIGHTLEY: Well, yes, it's got to be, 'course he had a, some connection with a man in Washington, D.C., that kind of sponsored him, he was, kind of served as a godfather for Jules because he's from, you know, from Senegal, but Jules went to Oak Hill, you know that. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: And he had that year there and I saw him play when he was at Oak Hill and thought, you know, what, what a prospect, because he fit in to their team concept, you know it's a team there. And, you know, I could visualize, boy if he, you know, if he, he could be a go-to guy I thought because of his size and his quickness. SUCHANEK: And his arm length. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and, and... SUCHANEK: He was a great shot blocker. KEIGHTLEY: But you know what? His, his body really never did develop. I think that's, that was part of the problem. You know, he's never developed any, any muscle and I think that's probably, might be an ethnic thing, you know the... Most people from Senegal all have the same body structure. They're all very slender, and they're more identifiable than almost any nationality anywhere. SUCHANEK: Must be from that particular tribe. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, I, I think that's it. We had a walk-on, that walk-on tryout we had here, there was a kid as soon as I looked at him, I knew he was from Senegal. And, and, yes I, I think that's it. It's from that tribe and they all and they all have the same body structure. So they really, we used to kid Jules about it, the way he ran, we used, we used to kid him about it. (laughter-Keightley) He had to run his food down everyday (laughter- Suchanek) (laughter-Keightley) so he could eat. SUCHANEK: Well, believe it or not, I think we're about out of the 1990's. (laughter- Suchanek) KEIGHTLEY: Oh well, I tell you we're moving. SUCHANEK: Yeah, so next time we'll start with the 2000 team. KEIGHTLEY: Hot dog, man. Another century. SUCHANEK: (laughter- Suchanek) That's right. KEIGHTLEY: We rung up one. Keightley discusses players from the 1990s. He talks about the expectations and discipline required to play on the team, and pinpoints some who were leaders, and others who moved on because they didn't share the same outlook. Highlighted players include Jeff Sheppard, Jules Camara, Steve Masiello, Jamaal Magloire, and Heshimu Evans. UKAW; University of Kentucky Men's Basketball

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