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2007-10-16 Interview with William B. Keightley, October 16, 2007 AF008:2007OH198A/F753 01:24:53 William B. Keightley Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries University of Kentucky -- Basketball. College athletes -- Recruiting. Basketball -- Coaching. Gillispie, Billy. Pitino, Rick. Keightley, William B.; Interviewee Suchanek, Jeffrey; Interviewer keightley_af_0753 1:|22(4)|45(2)|72(19)|97(3)|117(9)|136(12)|144(6)|160(6)|176(14)|190(26)|211(20)|229(1)|244(5)|254(13)|264(33)|283(9)|295(3)|304(24)|315(13)|323(11)|337(2)|349(14)|365(7)|371(31)|386(10)|399(13)|417(19)|431(2)|445(2)|457(10)|469(7)|482(29)|501(12)|515(9)|525(34)|539(29)|546(21)|557(2)|578(8)|606(20)|626(5)|638(12)|652(21)|655(32)|665(1)|671(25)|685(7)|688(20)|705(11)|719(13)|734(5)|752(9)|763(24)|770(2)|783(25)|817(2)|839(21)|848(9)|856(30)|879(15)|897(6)|914(21)|932(28)|949(30)|961(6)|976(3)|991(35)|1016(6)|1038(12)|1053(11)|1064(3)|1071(5)|1085(7)|1099(5)|1116(29)|1145(7)|1166(19)|1181(15)|1185(5)|1199(7)|1218(12)|1230(12)|1248(5)|1259(18) audiotrans BKeight interview SUCHANEK: I just turn this thing on and thought we'd just go ahead and start jawing a little bit. [Both laughing]. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, all right. SUCHANEK: Well, wha-- how did Billy Clyde like this first midnight madness? KEIGHTLEY: Oh he, we, you know, he was amazed, they didn't have a clue. SUCHANEK: That's his first introduction to Kentucky basketball. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, they, they, they didn't have a clue. And... and now, you know, some of the younger ones really don't know how to handle it. They think that they really arrived now. [SUCHANEK laughing.] You know how it is. Again, like new rich. Oh boy, I am way up there now. Oh I know more about this game. [Both laughing.] SUCHANEK: They're ready for the NBA aren't they? KEIGHTLEY: Well yeah, yeah. SUCHANEK: Had a bunch of recruits in. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah. SUCHANEK: Did you get to meet 'em all? KEIGHTLEY: Yep,... almost had too many. SUCHANEK: How do you mean? KEIGHTLEY: They're just, it's just hard to... give everybody the same amount of time. SUCHANEK: Yeah and they all expect it don't they? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah they do, you had... about eight official and about six unofficial. And the parents. But it was a wonderful weekend for 'em to be here to see... with the football game, the way that thing turned out. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. Well I saw were the a... Frankfort, Frankfort football player committee right after the football game. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh-huh. SUCHANEK: Uhm, kind of emotional commitment there, but, you know, uhm, you kind of hope the same thing happens after midnight madness don't you? KEIGHTLEY: Well, yes you do. Yeah. SUCHANEK: How much, how much influence do you think that kind of event has on recruit and his family? KEIGHTLEY: Well, it's, it's got to make ah... yes it is - [SUCHANEK started to talk over KEIGHTLEY.] SUCHANEK: I mean the fact that they were here at UK -- [KEIGHTLEY starting to talk over SUCHANEK.] KEIGHTLEY: It's got to get ingrained in their mind you know. SUCHANEK: How do ya, how do ya get them here rather than at North Carolina's midnight madness, or Duke's or whatever? KEIGHTLEY: Well, you just... course in Billy's case, he just starts on it early, and ah,... you know the... one's on the official visit, ah... most of 'em of course were juniors. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: And ah,... but he starts on early, and a- [SUCHANEK talking over KEIGHTLEY.] SUCHANEK: This is their junior season right? KEIGHTLEY: Huh? SUCHANEK: They're just starting their junior season? KEIGHTLEY: Ah, no they're, they're- SUCHANEK: Oh they're going to seniors? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah they're starting their senior season, yeah, yeah. And then course, on the unofficial, you've got the younger group, you know. That's... some even sophomores, and others juniors. SUCHANEK: Who are some of the ones you had in? I, I don't know if I saw any kind of list that was here. KEIGHTLEY: We had the kid from Madisonville, Josh Hall. SUCHANEK: Yes, uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: Ah, he, he just 16 years old. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: He's 6'6'' and very, very athletic. White kid. SUCHANEK: Now that's the, that's the kind of, that's the kind of recruitment that Billy's almost got to get doesn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, we, we, we- SUCHANEK: In Kentucky. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. He's a, really ah, top prospect really. Because he's, he probably gonna top out at about 6'8", at least. He's 6' 6" now. SUCHANEK: Uh-hm. It is he thin, stocky? KEIGHTLEY: He's got a good body or a 16-year-old. And ...course lots of times, you know, ah... some of the parents probably be more difficult to deal with than the kids. So you never know about, about that situation. I know his dad's very active. Very active. [Both laughing.] SUCHANEK: What are the chances of him, committing to Kentucky do you think? I know there was some, I was surprised by the other number of- [KEIGHTLEY talking over SUCHANEK.] KEIGHTLEY: I'd say, I think, ah, I think there, there's a good chance, really. But it wouldn't... be anyways soon... SUCHANEK: Shocking KEIGHTLEY: No, I don't, don't think. SUCHANEK: And it would be shocking if he went somewhere else, right? It wouldn't be- KEIGHTLEY: Well, yeah, at, at this time. SUCHANEK: Could I -- you know, I, I noticed some of the schools that were recruiting, and I mean these are top-flight schools. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: I forget who they were, but maybe North Carolina. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Florida. SUCHANEK: Yeah, exactly. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: Yeah, so. Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: The one, the one that was absent that I thought would be in there was ah,..ah,....oh, ah, UMASS, UMASS, I'm trying to think where Travis was. But I asked his dad about, had Travis been in, you know, to recruit. He said no, he knows not to come in here. [Both laughing.] So apparently he doesn't like Travis. SUCHANEK: Okay. [Both laughing.] Which is good. KEIGHTLEY: He knows not to come in here. I just let it drop then. SUCHANEK: Yeah. Ahm, I imagine he played, this kid played AAU? Do you know? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, oh yeah, he played AAU, yes. And ah,.. another, ah, good prospect in here from North Carolina, his name... is, is John Hall. There's two Halls. And he's just going to be a sophomore, and I'm telling you, he be, he could be, he could be another Michael Jordan. And really, really, real nice African-American kid. And his coach is a real clean-cut mannerly fella. He's been here twice. SUCHANEK: How much contact do you have with the recruits? KEIGHTLEY: Oh you know, I have as.... as they come through I visit with 'em extensively. SUCHANEK: They bring them here to you? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh-huh. And then,.. ah, while ahh, while the kid's, we'll say... are out watching our players, uh I normally stay with their parents. SUCHANEK: Uh-hm. Get to visit with them? KEIGHTLEY: Visit with them. SUCHANEK: Uh-hm. Get to know them? KEIGHTLEY: That's right. Yeah, yeah the ones, I'm going to tell you, the ones you really got a visit with is the mothers. Yeah, you really have. If you can make an impression on a mother, you, you got a better chance. [Both laugh.] SUCHANEK: So you, you know, you're really part of the recruiting effort, an important part. KEIGHTLEY: Well, I, he, well yeah, it's a, it's, you know, it's, again its a team thing. They get them in, and I talk with them, you know because I've been exposed to so many different players over the years, most every state I'm have some connection that I know that they would know about. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: But that just, becomes from longevity. [Both laugh.] SUCHANEK: And a friendly disposition. KEIGHTLEY: [Both still laughing.] Yeah, well yeah. Yes. But ah, yeah I, I, I enjoy that part of it. SUCHANEK: What about the news this morning about Kelvin Sampson in trouble again? KEIGHTLEY: I can't believe, I cannot believe that the NCAA tolerates this guy. First of all I couldn't believe that a school like Indiana would extend to him a contract. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. I know you mentioned that when he was hired, you were surprised. KEIGHTLEY: And ah, to think now that he has [chuckle] committed, committed violations again is unthinkable. SUCHANEK: Yeah, of the same nature. Of the same nature. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, of the same nature. And not only that, to add insult to injury, as I told you before, he was chairman of that board of the ethics committee for the NCAA. SUCHANEK: [Laughing] The, the wolf guarding the chicken house wasn't it? KEIGHTLEY: [Laughing] I'm a, I'm, I'm a... I'm a little bit like a, Tubby, you know, Tubby always, or Calvin, or Kelvin always proclaimed to be a friend of Tubby's. I told Tubby I don't believe I'd much want that tag. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: Because ah, no he's, he, he's.... it's a pretty well known fact that he's always been a cheater and always gotten away with it, and there's X amount of people out there that do. SUCHANEK: Well now that he's at Indiana, a high profile program like UK... [KEIGHTLEY talking over SUCHANEK.] KEIGHTLEY: He don't need to cheat! SUCHANEK: But do you think the NCAA will try to make an example of him now? KEIGHTLEY: Well, they, I tell you the NCAA needs to start suspending coaches. That's what they need to do. If they really want to start cleaning it up, let's, let's, let's whack some coaches. Course, they've always been ah, ever since Jerry Tarkanian, you know, took 'em to court. [SUCHANEK laughing.] And here was a guy that didn't have a leg to stand on. SUCHANEK: [Laughing.] I know. KEIGHTLEY: That got judgment and I guess that's the fear that they operate under. SUCHANEK: Yeah. KEIGHTLEY: But when a man has a record, you know like... Sampson, yep, they need to make an example out of him. SUCHANEK: Well, he said he made a mistake in Oklahoma and he wasn't going to do it again. [Laughs.] KEIGHTLEY: That's right, yes. 580 of 'em or whatever. 580. SUCHANEK: Now, I think they only got, got him for two or something up in Indiana so far. As far as they've looked. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: Yep. SUCHANEK: That's the text messaging, you know, ah, if they start maybe looking at the phone calls, maybe that's going to be something even bigger? KEIGHTLEY: Well, it could be that, yeah. This just text, yep. One thing about it, you put that stuff out there they can-- they can track her down. [SUCHANEK laughing.] And so [both trying to talk at the same time] so can they on the phone calls too. SUCHANEK: That's right. Anything that's electronic is traceable. No matter how hard you try to erase it. KEIGHTLEY: Yep. SUCHANEK: It's worse than paper. [Both laughing.] It's worse than paper. Well you know, the, the Homeland Security Department I'm sure has, has him on tape [Both laughing pretty hard.] I'm sure they've got your file out [laughing]. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, I don't know [laughing] probably. [Both laughing hard, barely able to talk.] SUCHANEK: You better be careful or you'll be a - [both laughing hard] KEIGHTLEY: Well they won't get me for texting that's for certain. [Both still laughing hard]. SUCHANEK: You'll be declared an enemy combatant, and you'll be rendered. [Both laughing hard, barely able to talk.] KEIGHTLEY: Ahh, Lord. SUCHANEK: Well anyway, we were talking about, ah, the end of the 90s, and I think the last time we ended with Oliver Simmons.... ah, or maybe Ryan Hogan, but ah, there's some other names, ahm... on that 99' team. Nate Knight. I don't even remember Nate Knight. KEIGHTLEY: Well, Nate... was from Utah and his brother was also a, was a seven footer that played in college, he may have played for Utah, and.... Rick signed him, his brother... to a contract, a big contract with the Celtics. And of course, if his, I forget his, maybe his brother's name was Brandon. SUCHANEK: Brevin I think. Was it Brevin Knight? KEIGHTLEY: He, it, I don't know whether it was Brandon, or Brevin, or whatever, but anyhow that was his brother and he, he just never did pan out. He's, course, he got the money. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: You have some good conversation going on? KEIGHTLEY: We're recording oral history. Yes that's what we're doing. But anyhow, he, his brother never panned out as a pro. And Nate came here and he... was a transfer... he played at a JuCo. And he came here and he was a real hard-nosed kid, but he couldn't shoot. He was about 6'7" and ah, he played the first semester and he, he, he just threw the towel in, we just become tired of basketball. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. So he didn't transfer anywhere else? KEIGHTLEY: He well, he, he left and went back to Utah. He was of course a Mormon. SUCHANEK: Oh, okay. KEIGHTLEY: And, ah... yes she surfaced again maybe... at some small school in Utah but never did play. So you know he came and left just like you and nobody ever really knew he was here. But a, was he, he was a real nice, he was a real nice person. SUCHANEK: Did Rick-- did Rick get him to come here or did Tubby? KEIGHTLEY: Tubby. SUCHANEK: Okay Tubby. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Yeah I forget which one of our, which one of our assistant coaches decided that Nate could be of help to us. I don't recall which one it was now. But ah, Nate just didn't pan out. He gave it that all, all American hustle, but that's all he had to offer. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Well there was a Kentucky kid too, on that team, ahm,... for several years-- I think he even graduated with Todd Tackett, who didn't play a whole lot, and I think a lot was expected of him, but ah, came in as a, known as a shooter, but couldn't shoot. KEIGHTLEY: That's another thing, yes sir. I was-- went with Rick to see JR Vanhoose. You may recall that name. SUCHANEK: Sure do. Yep, went to Marshall, right? KEIGHTLEY: And, ah, Todd was the, was a guard on that team. We went up to watch a practice and Todd had a great practice. And Rick thought that Todd would be a great player, course Rick would always get in a little bit of a hurry when it came to recruiting, because he actually didn't like to recruit he liked to coach. So, you know at the end of the year, offered Todd of scholarship and he snapped it up, of course. And ah- SUCHANEK: He stayed all four years. KEIGHTLEY: He, he, he came in here and... just ah, just didn't work out for him, didn't hardly have the skills that it really takes to play at this level. SUCHANEK: Right. I mean he wasn't- KEIGHTLEY: He, and he got a, you know, he, he got a pretty fair shot. But he just didn't have the skills, and, you know, a nice young man. I don't know what it's doing now. Course, he always fancied himself as a baseball player. SUCHANEK: That's right. Played baseball too, didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: I don't know, he did in high school, but that, I think that was the end of it. He never did play baseball here. And he fancied himself as a shortstop and a hitter. [SUCHANEK laughing.] He used to say that, kind of like Ted Williams said, he could read what was imprinted on the ball as it was coming to the plate. You know, had the eye of a eagle. [Both laughing.] But ah, something about that, I guess the eagle flew away or something, because it... but Todd, Todd was a nice young man. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Some recall he, he had slow footwork. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yes, and you know, he was a terrible size, about six two. When that's a-- being slow and six two is not conducive to big-time basketball. [SUCHANEK laughing.] Yes I'd say, he's, he, yes. [Both chuckling.] He's, he's enjoyed himself. That's our strength coach [addressing somebody walking by]. SUCHANEK: You know that ah, ah, 99 -2000 team, that was the year I think Desmond Allison got in trouble with a DUI. Do you recall that? KEIGHTLEY: You know, Desmond, yes Desmond... SUCHANEK: I don't know if that, is that the one where Jamaal Magloire was involved too? KEIGHTLEY: Ahhh, yeah, that's a, you know, that's kinda entwined there, maybe... somebody was driving, may of, might've been Desmond driving in his vehicle, and maybe rear ended Mary Ellen Reed-Sloane. [SUCHANEK laughing.] Who is, you know, they, they were big Wildcats supporters. And, ah, it seems like may be Steve Masiello might have gotten involved in that one also. It was one of those entwined things, you know kids being kids, lending their vehicles to someone. SUCHANEK: Yeah, and, and, it took, I don't, I think it was Desmond, took him a while to fess up. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah it did, yes. But ah, course, Desmond was a great athlete. And he, he left here and finally, I don't know how he managed this, about, after he left here about five years later, you know he played football in Mississippi last year at some school. SUCHANEK: I recall that. KEIGHTLEY: And Desmond is 27 years old. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Well I saw were that 59-year-old guy just suited up this weekend. KEIGHTLEY: [Both laughing.] I didn't read the story, I just saw the headline. But Desmond, you know he matured and he, he got to be really, he, he probably weighs now-- he was here this summer. He probably weighs, 245 pounds, and supposedly had a, had a tryout with the Bengals. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: As an end, yes. So ah- SUCHANEK: As I recall he was put together too. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah. And very athletic. But ah, you know I was a, he stayed around here this summer, and he's, you know, like we always say, you get a little older, you mature and you, you become at least a decent citizen, and that's, that's what he is. SUCHANEK: Uh-hm. What's he doing now? KEIGHTLEY: Well, I don't know since he left here. And he, as I say, supposedly had that tryout, and then ah, course we, see it didn't, it didn't take, so, since then I, he left and I, I do not know where he is. SUCHANEK: Ah, 2000 - 2001 team, Marvin Stone came, and there was another story with Marvin Stone, wasn't it? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, we had, yes we had, that was a period of time, we had some storied players that were highly touted and nonproductive. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. What was Marvin's problem? KEIGHTLEY: Well... you know he had some adversity about the time he came here, but even before that I went to see him when he was in junior with Rick. And you know he was one of the most highly recruited kids in America. SUCHANEK: Yeah, he was. KEIGHTLEY: He's six ten, and strong, but he was not very mobile. I, I didn't, you know, when I say I didn't like him, I didn't like his game when he was a junior. But we kept on recruiting him, and- SUCHANEK: He had soft hands. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. And, and when Tubby came, you know Tubby jumped right in there, and we went down to see him. SUCHANEK: Was that Atlanta? KEIGHTLEY: No, he's in, and Alabama, Huntsville, Huntsville. And he was all entwined also with an AAU coach, name was Mark Camara, that tried to call all the shots and I guess, in reality he did. See there's another case of the AAU coach. But ah, anyhow, he's, he signed here, and shortly after he got here, his dad came up for a visit and maybe it was about the next weekend his dad died of a heart attack. So ah, that was a, you know, a shock to Marvin, he got off to a very poor start. And ah, in fact he just never did ah, never did get his game together. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: Ah, you know he transferred, and he went to U of L and he played one good game in his whole college career. SUCHANEK: Against us. KEIGHTLEY: Against Kentucky. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: And it wasn't a monumental game, but it was a great game for Marv'. And ah, we had matched up with Marquis Estill and... Marvin Stone, and they, they were actually inseparable buddies. But ah, then finally, you know, Marvin wore his welcome out in Louisville, and just, just dropped off the team. And he's, playing somewhere, one of the foreign countries, but I don't know where. But, but he spends quite a bit of time in Lexington. So ah, he was just another big kid that just didn't pan out. I guess his work ethic was the main detriment to his lack of success. No work ethic. SUCHANEK: I recall they were always trying to work with his feet. He had bad footwork around the basket. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. He had, he had no footwork. He had a big strong body. SUCHANEK: He had no shot. KEIGHTLEY: That's right, no couldn't shoot, couldn't shoot free-throws. SUCHANEK: That's right. Let's talk about Marquis Estill, next. He's a Kentucky kid. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Marquis was the one now that had great hands, and had, really good footwork, but he was a victim of bad knees. But he no, he, he had, he had a decent career here. And ah- SUCHANEK: He always seemed like he wanted to play. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, and, and you don't he had the, he could shoot. SUCHANEK: Right. He had a jump shot. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he, he could shoot, and I - SUCHANEK: Whereas you know like Marvin, it didn't, didn't seem like - [KEIGHTLEY talking over SUCHANEK]. KEIGHTLEY: Marvin had no shot. SUCHANEK: Well, he didn't seem like he wanted to play him. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, well yeah. But ah, Marquis has spent a lot of time uhm, here since he, well he hadn't graduated yet but he's going to graduate. He's very close, and has ah, as his mother ever, you know, there's nobody in that family that had ever even gone to college, and she's very proud of Marquis. SUCHANEK: Where's he from? KEIGHTLEY: He's from, ah Richmond. Went to Madison Central. SUCHANEK: But he wasn't highly recruited by other schools. KEIGHTLEY: No, he , he ,he wasn't. And I think people shied away from his bad knees, and which, in essence says, what, what, he could've been a pro if he'd have had good knees. But, nah, you know now, he's actually playing in Japan. SUCHANEK: Is that right? KEIGHTLEY: He, he's a, he is a very easy going, nice friendly kid. And he will fit the Japanese mold in that respect. Because he's not one that's, tries to show boat or anything like that. He just, he just plays the game. And hopefully, hopefully he has a good year over there and maybe be able to go back. Because you know he's getting a little age on him now also. SUCHANEK: What kind of money do they make over there? KEIGHTLEY: What's that? SUCHANEK: What kind of money do they make in Japan? KEIGHTLEY: Hey, you know what, the average, the average American player in Japan will make 100,000 tax-free. But while they're in Japan they get their ah, they get housing, they get a vehicle, and you know, they get $100,000 that's tax-free, and they don't play that many games. It's a club sport in, in Japan. SUCHANEK: I was going to say I don't know how popular basketball is in Japan? KEIGHTLEY: No, it, it's a not ah.. SUCHANEK: Not like baseball. KEIGHTLEY: No, no, no, no, no. All those, all those big factories over there at, at noon play baseball. They go out for recreation. And they, Japanese are big on recreation. But ah, you know when you've had, several of our kids have gone over there and-- SUCHANEK: Yeah, we talked about one of them. KEIGHTLEY: And they had ah, some of them would have stayed forever. Reggie Hanson played over there for a long time. And probably would've stayed forever. And Deron Feldhaus played there. Larry Johnson, off of that ah, off of that 75 team. He went to Japan and stayed about 12 years and married a Japanese woman. SUCHANEK: Yeah, you mentioned that he was vice president of something over there. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he was vice president, yeah,... I forget the name of the company now. But ah,... and we had ah, Lavon Williams went over there, and they signed him, and he would, you know, he was a good player, but he was such a, a tough competitor, that the Japanese actually, actually were afraid of him. So he didn't last long. SUCHANEK: [laughing] Forget Jamaal Magloire over there. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: That's right, that's right. You know, they only actually play about two games a week. SUCHANEK: Not bad. KEIGHTLEY: and they don't practice every day either. So he just plays those companies and, if you're one, you're all really energetic you can, you can go to work for the company in some capacity and make additional money. And some of the, you know, some of the guys like... Deron Feldhaus, and even, and Reggie, that, I mean they, they took advantage of it. So, basketball, although they get paid that big salary, they just play about, about 20 games a year, is about it. And that covers about seven months. SUCHANEK: Yeah, if Mel Turpin would have gone over there he would've been in trouble wouldn't he? KEIGHTLEY: He would've been in trouble. SUCHANEK: Too much time to eat. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: Yeah he, he, he would've liked anything they had. [Both laughing.] SUCHANEK: What about Keith Bogans, from DeMatha High School? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, ah, well you know Keith was one of the better players that we've had in this century. But he was another one that had a terrific work ethic. SUCHANEK: He came in with a lot of hype. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and he was ah,... you know it helps so much for a player to have a personality. They don't realize it, but it does, it makes ah., ah, you, you could, you didn't have to try to read Keith, he'd, he would tell you. You know, most players you got to try to read what, what they're thinking. But not Keith, he will, you know he'll open up with ya. That's kinda like Ramel Bradley on this team. You don't have to worry about what he's thinking, because he will tell you, yeah. [Both laughing.] And, ah, it, it just makes, well, it's very beneficial to them, and everyone around them. SUCHANEK: Does he stay in touch, Keith? KEIGHTLEY: Huh? SUCHANEK: Does Keith Bogan stay in touch with you? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, he, he, he's been here within the last three weeks. SUCHANEK: Oh really? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he been in twice this summer, but he stayed about five or six days, right before he had to report back. SUCHANEK: Ah, he plays for Orlando? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Okay. Uh-hum. SUCHANEK: Yeah I believe this is his second tour there. But ah, yeah, he's, you know, he's, he's been in the league I guess four, maybe... no, he's probably been in the league five years. SUCHANEK: Well.. yeah. KEIGHTLEY: Because Tayshaun is going into his, seventh I believe, and "Tay" was a year ahead of Keith. SUCHANEK: I think we talked about this before, you know, U of L, at the same time we had Bogans, they had Reece Gaines, and Reece Gaines ah, of course was playing for Rick, and would fill it up every night, and Rick would say what a great NBA player he's going to be. Why I don't think he played a single NBA game? KEIGHTLEY: No, I don't, no, I don't, I don't think so, uh-uh. No, it's ah, it's hard to say, you can over, you can over evaluate them if you're not careful. SUCHANEK: How often does, ah, does, do you, ah, do you UK recruiters run into, ah Rick or U of L recruiters. Are you, are you all after the same kind of players? KEIGHTLEY: Ahh, they a normally, no we don't recruit the same type player, no. Normally. Course occasionally there is - [SUCHANEK breaking in]. SUCHANEK: Unless there's a Kentucky kid. KEIGHTLEY: -- one of the real, yes that's right. And ole Rick just got a commitment from ah,.. kid I guess last weekend, I don't know that much about him, only I know he's going to be a freshman next year, and he's already 20 years old. [SUCHANEK laughing.] So that shows you he's had some kind of an academic trail somewhere. But, ah, no there's a, there is a few schools that recruit the different type athletes. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. If you're after an athlete here in Kentucky and U of L is after the save athlete, does UK have a built-in advantage do you think? KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know, I guess since I'm here at Kentucky, I'd say yes. Yes I think so. SUCHANEK: Because of the, the general-- KEIGHTLEY: They have-- the perception is- SUCHANEK: Statewide, statewide following? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I, ah, no,... actually... U of L has some problems with athletes that we don't have. Course you never like to have a problem, and especially in football, they take transfers that's got a pretty tattered past, and dismissed from other teams for obvious reasons and they surface. And I think that may be... tends as a deterrent prob-- a lot of parents will send their kids there. Now, hey they, this, I'm not saying that these kids can't play because they can and they proved it, but ah, it's just not a, it's just not a plus to have, have a kid that doesn't represent your school without embarrassment. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Is U of L, ah, looked upon out in the state as more of an urban university, as opposed to Kentucky. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes you know, actually you get out of... out of Jefferson County and their, their supporters fall off really sharply. And I'm not certain if we had an election and Jefferson County that, that we wouldn't win, win that election. SUCHANEK: I was going to say, is Jefferson County probably about 50-50. KEIGHTLEY: It is yes. But you get away from there, you don't.... oh you'll get you know... then, there's a ah.... well, you get away from Louisville as always, a radical in little towns or somewhere, that, that wants to be, be different so they'll be a U of L supporter. Just for the sake of being different and controversial. Or at least that's my opinion. SUCHANEK: I guess you, you all don't recruit the same athletes that Western Kentucky recruits? KEIGHTLEY: Well- SUCHANEK: I guess you rarely see their recruiters? KEIGHTLEY: Again you know, there's a pretty thin line there, ah, 'course Western is, you know, historically been, have a- SUCHANEK: [Interrupting KEIGHTLEY.] Oh surely. KEIGHTLEY: -- had a great tradition, and ah,... but now, you know now, there is a very thin... line between what we call majors and a mid-major, and I, I suspect now that ah, general perception of Western is that they are- SUCHANEK: A mid-major. KEIGHTLEY: -- a mid-major. SUCHANEK: But you're right, I mean even in the 90s they had some top-flight teams that made the tournament and advanced. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But, the thing of it is,.. the mid-majors make it to the NCAA tournament every year and create havoc. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: So that's the reason I say it's a very thin line. SUCHANEK: I'm trying to think, did they make the final four? KEIGHTLEY: They, ah, they, they with, Patrick Sparks was there, they went to the NCAA. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: And I think they won one game. SUCHANEK: Okay. And Murray was also like that for a while. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, now Murray is a little bit like... SUCHANEK: When they had Popeye Jones. KEIGHTLEY:..Murray is a little bit like Memphis State when it comes to athletics. SUCHANEK: I guess their most famous athlete was Popeye Jones, wasn't it? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah. SUCHANEK: And he had a pretty good NBA career. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah he had a, yeah he had a pretty good career. But ah- SUCHANEK: But he-- they were one of those teams that would get-- make the tournament and knock off somebody and create a big stir. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that's right. Yep, they could do it. Because they you know, type of athletes they had. They were always very athletic. SUCHANEK: And I think you and I've talked about this before over the years,.. sometimes you dread that first... game and tournament. KEIGHTLEY: [Talking at the same time as SUCHANEK.] Oh yeah, you dread, you dread ah, well- SUCHANEK: And you're playing, you know, Podunk U. KEIGHTLEY: Well you know, here we lost to, which actually, it's not a mid-major but most people have seen them as being mid-major, here couple or three years ago UAB. I mean you know, they are really major but they are perceived as mid-major. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: And they knocked us off, you remember I guess in the second round. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Well you know there's that year a few years ago Kent State went to, at least to the elite eight, I think, if not-- I don't think they made the final four, but they went to the elite eight, remember that? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, they did, that Stan Heath was coaching there at that time. SUCHANEK: That's right. So it can be done. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, it can be done. You know just like right now you gotta have Georgetown College over here. You know they're, they are a formidable foe all the time. But they have a lot of Division I transfers, and Happy Osborne does such a great job over there. And they, they, they play you tough, they, they...ah, their schedule this year is just ahh, their first game I think is with U of L, then maybe they play West Virginia and Xavier? SUCHANEK: But these might not be gimme games for those teams. [Both laugh.] KEIGHTLEY: They ah, they, hey, they will compete. SUCHANEK: That's right. KEIGHTLEY: But, course they are, you know, they are...a premier power in the NAIA division. Every year they're, if they're not at the top why they're not out of the top five, they're always there. And they will be again. I think Happy's got about 6 or 7 D1 players over there. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Do you talk to him much? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah. Yes, Happy's one of my real good buddies. SUCHANEK: Did you know Ed Diddle? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yes sir. SUCHANEK: Tell me about him. I mean he's a legend down there at Western. KEIGHTLEY: Weeeell, yeah, yeah there's a lot of... uncle Ed. He was a very colorful fellow, a little bit like ah, Coach Rupp, he was funny and hilarious when he wasn't trying to be funny, just with the statements he'd make, and ah, he, he coached basketball in a country type way that appealed to all people and waving the old red towel, which you know he was known for, and ah, you know the uncle Ed stories that are, they abound, of the things that he's done, like he was an avid hunter, and ah, he had, course he had his, he was a bird hunter, when I say he was a hunter, he was a quail hunter. He took his old, his old dog Jake out put him in the car went out hunting came, came home and for couple days he couldn't find his dog, didn't know what happened to old Jake. And, somebody went to the car and opened up the rear end old Jake jumped out and Uncle Ed said "well, dad blame Jake, where you been?" [Both laughing for a bit.] Ahh, boy. [Both still laughing.] SUCHANEK: Ahhhh.... let's talk about Erik Daniels, he's one of my favorite players. KEIGHTLEY: Well, you know what, I'll guess- SUCHANEK: He, in fact, he stopped in here one time when we were talking. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah I know, yeah. You know what, he, he is one of my all time favorites. Again because of that one thing, he had a personality. [Both laughing.] And I'll tell you this little story about him, you know he came in here, Sean Finney was, was the guy, that you know decided that we should take, Erik- SUCHANEK: Yeah I remember, people saying that this was a waste. KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely, and notwithstanding I was one of 'em. And he came in here that first year, I thought man, you know what, again he had that personality, we started that season, we played in that thing up at New York, Coaches versus Cancer or something. I don't know, I forgot which, it was in the first game we played, and I don't recall who it was... but, put Erik in the game early, in the first half... well Erik goes down, he hits a three-pointer, comes back down twice more, hit a three pointer. Now, Ralph Hacker, whose calling the game, didn't know his name [both laugh] because he was calling him Dillard, and when he hit his third three pointer, Hacker said "Dillard's on fire!" [Both laughing.] And course, to this day I call him- SUCHANEK: Dillard. KEIGHTLEY: Nothing but Dillard. [Both laughing.] Everybody else does the same thing, 'cause Ralph Hacker said Dillard's on fire. [Both laughing still.] But ah-- SUCHANEK: That's, that's pretty, that's pretty significant when the announcer doesn't even know your name. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, I think he was in the same mode as the rest of us. [Both laughing.] But you know that kid,...improved every year. SUCHANEK: I tell you he and Chuck Hayes, what a duo they made. KEIGHTLEY: I tell you, they did, and really I thought that Dillard would make, I thought he, he would latch on with the pros this year. But..he, he had a broken hand, and it hampered him at the wrong time of the year, and ah, so.. he didn't make it, he had, let's see... he worked out with the Bulls, then he came back and he signed, he signed a contract to go back to Japan, which is, is where he is now but, he had to come back home and have that hand operated on, and he stayed here about, oh about 10 days. But then he had to go back to Italy. So that's where he is now. But you know, he came a magician with that ball. SUCHANEK: Well I mean he and Chuck Hayes had that pick and roll down, it was, it was a thing of beauty. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, well and, and, you know Erik could ah, could handle a ball because he played point guard up till about his sophomore year in high school, and then he had that sudden...ah, burst of growth, and grew about, about 6 inches in a year. And which really helped him when he was at our place because he's probably the best ball handler we had on that team. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: You know, if, if they were in a press I'd rather for Dillard to have the ball than anybody, because he, he could handle it. And he'd make those ungodly unconscious passes, and he loved that better than a score. SUCHANEK: And shots. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah [both laughing]. SUCHANEK: He made some of the weirdest shots I've ever seen. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, they, he just looked like a man falling out of a tree when he'd shoot. SUCHANEK: Exactly [laughing]. Exactly. And he had, he had the most energy I ever seen a player. KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, yeah. SUCHANEK: I mean his motor would never stop. [Both laughing still.] Stick around he's got a lot of these. [Still laughing.] UNIDETIFIED PERSON: [Laughing] Man falling out of a tree. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that's ah, that's you know what makes this game so great. But it is, it is, you know just exhilarating to see a young man developed as, as he developed. And what helped him so much, he had good strong parents. His grandmamma and mama, man I'm telling you, they'd, they'd whip his butt if he didn't do what he was supposed to do. You'd- nobody here had to do it, they did it. [Both laughing.] SUCHANEK: Here's another fella just like that on that team, Gerald Fitch. KEIGHTLEY: Well, yes, yes. Gerald was of a different personality, however. And ah , you know what he's- SUCHANEK: More serious wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: He, ah,... was really, really a good college player. He was underrated. But ah, he's played,.. had opportunities with a lot of different teams and for some reason, ah, he hasn't been able to stick. Now you know at this time he's with- SUCHANEK: The Pistons. KEIGHTLEY: -- the Pistons. And I would be hopeful maybe he would make it stick, but will have to wait and see. It's not that he don't have a good work ethic it's ahhh... SUCHANEK: well he's one of those tweener's at 6-5, 6-4. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah he's about 6-4 and... really can't be a point guard, too small to be a wing player. And ah- SUCHANEK: But in college he was a good rebounder. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah, and he's, you know he's a fierce competitor. But he just, he , he don't, he's, have the temperament as someone like Erik Daniels, that's, that's probably his biggest problem. SUCHANEK: How do you mean? KEIGHTLEY: Huh? SUCHANEK: How do you mean? KEIGHTLEY: Well, I mean, you know he's just a, a little more impulsive to situations instead of keeping cool and working through it, he just wants to do something about it right then. [Both laughing hard.] Which will get you in trouble. SUCHANEK: Well, did that ever lead to confrontations on the practice floor? KEIGHTLEY: Ohhh, no, yeah, not, no, not... anymore than what's normal. Yes. SUCHANEK: How about Cliff Hawkins? KEIGHTLEY: Eehhh, he's another one that I'm extremely proud of. He had to lay out of here because of his academics, and ah, Cliff was another highly underrated player. SUCHANEK: Was he at Oak Hill? KEIGHTLEY: He was from Oak Hill, yes. And he had really a bad, he had bad asthma, and he had difficulty breathing, but you know what, it didn't keep them from laying it on the line every day in practice. And in a game you know, he was-- suffocate somebody on defense. I mean, he just, just smothered them. But he laid that, that one year, he had the layout because of his academics, no one would've ever thought he'd ever play again, and ah, he, he ah, he hung in there... I gave him as much encouragement everyday as I could and incidentally, because of that we became very close. SUCHANEK: What's he doing now? KEIGHTLEY: He is playing.. somewhere in.. Sweden or, someplace like that. [Phone ringing, causing interruption.] Let's see if this is-- that one won't work. [Both laugh.] Yeah, and as I say, you know, we, we became very close, and I, I really, really admire Cliff. SUCHANEK: Well he was a fierce competitor. KEIGHTLEY: [Talking over SUCHANEK.] Cause he had, you know, he had the opportunity to fold his tent. SUCHANEK: Sort of like Scott Padgett, right? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, right. He had, yes every opportunity to folded it and he fought through it. And ah- SUCHANEK: What kind of family background did he have? KEIGHTLEY: That was it, he didn't have really any family background, as happens to, you know a lot of kids. So that another reason that I was so pleased that he fought through it, and ah, you know his senior year here, before every game when they announced, announced his name he'd come give me a hug. And then go out to the floor. SUCHANEK: But you know, Cliff was another one of these in a-- seems like a succession of point guards that we had a really couldn't shoot. KEIGHTLEY: Well you know, he was not a shooter, no. SUCHANEK: Yeah. KEIGHTLEY: No he wa-- but yet, you know what, he was dangerous. SUCHANEK: He hit some good shots. [Both talking up once again, hard to make of SUCHANEK.] KEIGHTLEY: You, you could leave him, you could leave him alone. SUCHANEK: Right, uh-huh. More so than like Wayne Turner. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, because you give him a small crack he, he'd take it to the basket. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. In mean he could hit the jumper too on occasion. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yeah. But we didn't-- SUCHANEK: It looked bad, but went in. KEIGHTLEY: We've had a bunch of those, you know, one of the finer guards we ever have, Wayne Turner couldn't shoot a lick. SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: But still holds the NCAA record for the [laughing a bit] most games ever played by college player. SUCHANEK: That's right. That's all the tournament games he went to. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes that's right. SUCHANEK: Some of the bench players were ah, Matt Heissenbuttel? KEIGHTLEY: Heissenbuttel? SUCHANEK: Yeah, and ah Cory Sears. KEIGHTLEY: Well, Cory isn't, you know, he didn't, he was a walk on... he made it through his first year then he transferred. SUCHANEK: Where did he go? KEIGHTLEY: Oh, he went to, I believe it was Cumberland and then he didn't stick there. I think he's running a used car lot now. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: In Corbin. I think. I see him occasionally. SUCHANEK: Do you? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, uh-huh. SUCHANEK: He just didn't fit in here? KEIGHTLEY: Well, it was, well you know, he wanted to play he just wasn't - [phone ringing causing distraction] I didn't recognize the number. It was unnecessary. [Both laugh.] Let's see, where were we? Oh, we, we got through- SUCHANEK: Heissenbuttel. KEIGHTLEY: Oh, Heissenbuttel, Heissenbuttel. Yeah his ah, his dad... played freshman basketball with Rick, I guess... at Boston University I guess. But he, he was a freshman teammate of Rick, and then he had moved to Lexington when Rick came here. And of course Matt played at Lexington Catholic, and he was a, you know, he was a good solid high school player. He, about 6-3 and a-- SUCHANEK: Why did, why did ah... Matt's father move here with Rick? Were they, was-- KEIGHTLEY: No, he, he came here before Rick, came as a, as coach. SUCHANEK: Oh, okay, so he was here before. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was here before, before Rick. Yes. And ah, then of course... Matt went to school with Rick's oldest kid,... Mike. But anyhow, he, he had, he had a good solid career at Lexington Catholic, and he,.. Rick gave him the opportunity to walk on, and he, you know, he was a very good, he was a very good walk on. He had, he had skills and was an excellent practice player. You know what, he loved it here, so he just, he, he could've played at a lot of colleges. But, at the time he was here we had, you know, players that were, a little, a little larger, and maybe a little quicker. But no, Matt, Matt was a valuable asset to, to the teams we had in his four years he was here. SUCHANEK: And he graduated didn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, oh yes, yes. He graduated, he a.. an accountant for some firm now. SUCHANEK: and I -- speaking of walk ons, I've got to ask you, in case I forget later on, I was watching midnight madness on TV and I saw this, this guy and I, my wife says who's that little guy out there. And I said, would that, he must be 5 feet, 5 inches tall. KEIGHTLEY: I'd say that's about right. SUCHANEK: Tell about him. KEIGHTLEY: Well, might be-- SUCHANEK: Who is he and-- KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, I'll, I'll give you a complete rundown. SUCHANEK: And how did he make, how did he make this team? KEIGHTLEY: We had walk on tryouts [laughing a bit]. We had, I don't know a thing about 26 guys show up. And ah, you know- SUCHANEK: Why would you have, why would you have walk on tryouts? KEIGHTLEY: I-- don't ask me, I can't, that's one question I can't answer. [Both laughing.] SUCHANEK: I mean are you short players, do you need practice? KEIGHTLEY: Well, I guess you just always looking for, as the old adage goes, another acorn. [Both laughing.] But ah, we used to have tryouts back when Joe B. was here and we have, 75 or 80. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. KEIGHTLEY: And you know,.. you, you never found one that could really play, and then... when a, Rick came we just had seven scholarship players. So we had walk on tryouts, and we picked up about three or four. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh, I remember. KEIGHTLEY: Yes. But, but ah, most of the time that the people that try out are juniors and seniors, you know, I saw, in my opinion, the tryouts we had I saw three or four guys that I probably would've taken, but they were either juniors or seniors. But this little fellow was a, you know, he's a freshman. SUCHANEK: I can't imagine him getting in any minutes at all. KEIGHTLEY: Well [laughing], I can't either. SUCHANEK: I mean, he might be Mugsy, Mugsy Bogues who, Bogues who can't jump. KEIGHTLEY: I, I'll tell you this, UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: 25,000 of those. KEIGHTLEY: I'll tell you this, will I don't know, I don't know if Todd knows it is, did you, did you happen to read his stats in high school, that story about him? UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: No. KEIGHTLEY: He was a, he's from Noblesville Indiana, he was a backup point guard for his high school team. [SUCHANEK laughing.] Now this is a rag to riches story [SUCHANEK laughing]. So.. we have, we-- SUCHANEK: What's his name? KEIGHTLEY: His name is-- UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Dusty Mills. SUCHANEK: Well, yeah, Dusty, Dusty Mills. But ah, [laugh] we, in the tryouts, you know he's out there scooting around, everybody just knocking him all over the place [SUCHANEK laughing], and Billy calls him-- SUCHANEK: You're twice as big as he is. KEIGHTLEY: Comes by and he said, that's Ollie out of the movie Hoosiers. [Laughing] You know, Ollie was a guy the that could swoop the underhand free-throw, well-- UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Dribble off his foot. KEIGHTLEY: This, this is our Ollie. And he averaged, he averaged two points, and almost one rebound a game his senior year. [Both laughing.] So Ollie, boy he, he, I don't even know if he was fast, you know what happens with little guys, they take short steps, it looks like they're fast. SUCHANEK: That's right. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: There's no way he can get a shot. SUCHANEK: I have a feeling he's going to be a crowd favorite. KEIGHTLEY: Well. [Both laughing.] Oh yes, he, he got to be at that size. SUCHANEK: Yeah. He'll be, you know, in those blowout games if we have any this year, they'll be, they'll be calling for him. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. Yeah. [Laughing again.] But ah-- SUCHANEK: And another-eh, eh, as long as he doesn't get killed in practice. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: I don't think there's much chance of that [of laughing hard]. Yes, I don't think there's much chance of that, but... like I told Billy about these walk on tryouts-- now I'll tell you what it leads to, and over the years, you know I've lived long enough to, to find out. 20 years from now they'll be some of those guys that, that came to this tryout, will say they were on UK's basketball team in 2007. It happens all the time to this day. The guy who was managing the restaurant out here on Nicholasville Road... had told Tubby and his assistants that he was a walk on here back, you know why don't remember when it was, in the 90s or sometime,... and here look at this guy never even saw the floor here let alone walk on. But you know- SUCHANEK: He went for a tryout. KEIGHTLEY: He, he, he came for tryout so that, that qualified him-- SUCHANEK: [talking between KEIGHTLEY's words. ] To be on the team. KEIGHTLEY: --to be on Kentucky's team. And course you know, coaches like that, they don't know, they just go ahead and believe it. I remember, and I told Tubby I, he said, well he ought to know. I said, well he don't know, because [both laughing ] he, never did, he, he never was on the team. SUCHANEK: I've never seen him. KEIGHTLEY: That's right [both laughing]. SUCHANEK: That reminds me of a.. fella we interviewed, for our World War II project who claimed he was the bombardier on the plane that dropped the atom bomb on Nagasaki. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. SUCHANEK: And I got curious about that, so I hunted down some of the other folks that were on that plane and they never heard of him. KEIGHTLEY: Ah, ahhh, yessiree. You, you, you can find 'em. SUCHANEK: Josh Carrier, Bowling Green right? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yes. Yeah he was- SUCHANEK: Or Hopkinsville? KEIGHTLEY: He was, well, he played at ah, he played at Bowling Green. SUCHANEK: Bowling Green? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, Bowling Green. Yeah Josh ah-- SUCHANEK: Was he Mr. Basketball? KEIGHTLEY: He was Mr. Basketball, he was the son of Darrel Carrier who was a, played in the, old ABA... and played for Western Kentucky and was a very fine basketball player, his dad was. And ah,.. Josh ah,.. I went one time with Rick to.. Warren East to watch JP Blevins play. That was with Rick, J.P. was a junior and we went there, and ah... Darrel was coaching Warren East, and Josh played in that game as an eighth-grader. SUCHANEK: Wow. KEIGHTLEY: For Warren East. And then ah, Darrel got out of coaching, but Warren East course was in Bowling Green. So the next year ah-- SUCHANEK: [Talking over KEIGHTLEY] I didn't even think that was possible. KEIGHTLEY: Huh? SUCHANEK: I didn't think that was possible, for an eighth-grader to play high school sports? KEIGHTLEY: Say what now? SUCHANEK: I didn't, I didn't know that that was legal, for an eighth-grader to play high school? KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, yeah. Well they ah, June Buchanan up here... in, in Eastern Kentucky. SUCHANEK: How old is an eighth-grader? KEIGHTLEY: Well he's ah- UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: [unintelligible comment] KEIGHTLEY: Yeah they can be, you know, most of them... of eighth-graders, fourteen? Oh yeah, that, they, June Buchanan's got a guard. He'll be aaaa, sophomore this year, that averaged 17 points a game in the eighth grade. SUCHANEK: Wow. See I think what I -- [cut off by KEIGHTLEY]. KEIGHTLEY: His name, his name is Cox. You follow that, that name and that box score, I wish that kid, would transfer and go somewhere else. Because he, he's got some skills. But he averaged 17 points a game as a, as an eighth-grader. SUCHANEK: Now where's he play? KEIGHTLEY: June Buchanan. SUCHANEK: Where's that? KEIGHTLEY: That's in ah... Carr Creek, Carr Creek.... SUCHANEK: Is that Floyd County? KEIGHTLEY: At Floyd County. SUCHANEK: Yeah. KEIGHTLEY: Floyd County. Yep, it's Floyd County. And his ah... the ah, he's playing on the team with two Stepp boys, they, they're, they're.. S, T, I, P, P,(sic) you had, at Ervin Stepp, who's one of the leading scorers that this state's ever produced and played at Eastern Kentucky, is these boy's.. uncle. And Ervin's dad is president of Alice Lloyd College. SUCHANEK: Oh. KEIGHTLEY: That's Knott County, Knott County. SUCHANEK: Knott County. KEIGHTLEY: Knott County. SUCHANEK: Okay. KEIGHTLEY: But ah, yeah this kid, and then naaah, the kid's uncle is a volunteer assistant coach, but these two Stepp boys, they take all the shots. June Buchanan really has a good high school team. They made state tournament last year, but you know they can't compete with these teams from here, or Louisville, but they do have a nice high school team. SUCHANEK: That's, that's really surprising, becau--, I think, I could swear when I play high school basketball,... I mean, maybe, maybe we just eighth-grader's at that, back in that day, we just weren't good enough of players. KEIGHTLEY: Well, I, I think that, that was it, yes. They as ah... they're a, I somewhere, last year I saw where a sixth-grader played you know, on one of these little team somewhere. But ah, yeah he played in that game as a an eighth-grader, and ah, you know we recruited Josh, he had a great high school career, and was Mr. Basketball. SUCHANEK: Again he was, he was too slow this, kind of competition wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: He, you know he... he wasn't you know, he wasn't really too quick, but... you know, he contributed because.. although he, it never did manifest itself in a game, Josh Carrier was a deadly shooter. But in the games he never could get them to drop. SUCHANEK: No he couldn't. KEIGHTLEY: But, the thing that ah, you've gotta love about Josh, everybody thought you know, Josh would lead, Josh would leave. Josh loved the University of Kentucky, and he even probably might have been encouraged to a degree to try to look elsewhere by his, by his parents, but he loved University of Kentucky, and he stayed right here, was a credit to the University, great, great student and a better human being. I, won't find a more humble, considerate young person than Josh Carrier. SUCHANEK: What's he doing now? KEIGHTLEY: I, you know Jeff, it seems to me that he may be in pharmaceutical sales, and also still, still he's working on his master's, and I'm, most likely, most likely has it by now. SUCHANEK: In, in what, business administration? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, that's right, business administration. But just a top-notch human being, and I, I'm so proud of him, I'm proud of his parents and, you know, sticking with it. And he had, had a, he had a good career here because he enjoyed himself. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Good practice player? KEIGHTLEY: Good, good, great practice player, wonderful disposition, and you know, just an all around good human being. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Well I'm going from Josh Carrier to Adam Chiles. KEIGHTLEY: Well [both laughing], and know that little fella, Adam, Adam Chiles had some skills. SUCHANEK: Yeah, he did. KEIGHTLEY: He had, you know what you, here's a kid that defied really what it was. Ah, this kid was a really a good student, made good grades, but he, ah, you know... away from the, away from the floor he was just a little bit mischievous. Kind of, well you know, someone of an agitator, but, you know, and I liked the kid, and I loved his parents, but he, he just didn't fit the mold here. SUCHANEK: Was it just discipline? KEIGHTLEY: It was, yeah, it was a lack of self-discipline, which you got to have when you are at a major college playing Division I basketball at a major school. You know you don't have to have that discipline if you're in some smaller school. You can do your thing still play, but here you can't, can't do it. SUCHANEK: You know he was dismissed from the team wasn't he? KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, yes he was. And then, ah.... course let's see, I guess he, he... SUCHANEK: Well he, he had been suspended once or twice I think by Tubby. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he had been. SUCHANEK: And ah, he, then finally he was just dismissed. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, and ah... SUCHANEK: And I forget why, was it marijuana or? KEIGHTLEY: No, I, no, I don't, it was just ah, you know an accumulation of things. As I say, he had, he made good grades, but still he skipped a lot of classes, and, you know and that's just not a good example. So ah- SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. And he transferred, I mean he, he went to... was it Murray or Western or someplace? KEIGHTLEY: He went aahh, I, I'm trying to think, maybe might have went to Murray I believe. SUCHANEK: Yeah, I think so. [Both talking at the same time.] And got in trouble there. KEIGHTLEY: And, then he got, he got, he got dismissed there. SUCHANEK: Right, uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir, sure did. But he was such a clean-cut little kid, and good manners. As I say, you know...he-- SUCHANEK: He could have been the starting point guard here at some point. KEIGHTLEY: He, he had some skills. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, he had some skills. SUCHANEK: Have you heard from him? KEIGHTLEY: No, I haven't, I haven't seen him. No, he's, he's one that I have not seen. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh, most players do keep in touch with you though, don't they? KEIGHTLEY: Oh I, yeah, you know, from time to time, yeah, I just... yesterday a guy called me from Florida that was a walk on here with Rick, oh I don't know, back about... 1989 or 90, and he's coming in this weekend and he wants to see me and take a tour of the facilities. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum, who's that? KEIGHTLEY: His name's Tim Ingram. SUCHANEK: I don't even remember him. KEIGHTLEY: I know you don't [laughing]. Yeah he was a walk on, of, you know.. some, walk on of some caliber, never played. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum, what's he doing down in Florida. KEIGHTLEY: You know, I can't-oh, he's an attorney. SUCHANEK: Really? KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Where did he get his degree, do you know? KEIGHTLEY: I don't know where he got his degree. I do not. I don't know, you know really.... if he, I don't know if he graduated here or... I just don't know. There's too many of them, to know from back from that time. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: But ah.... SUCHANEK: What, what do you hear about, ah... now that practices have started for all teams, ah have you heard anything out there, in ah, from people that you know, or different coaches? Have you been in touch with ah, ahm, what the outlook is for, you know, the SEC this year? I know Florida lost their entire starting squad, ah you know, nobody is particularly picking UK to do much this year. KEIGHTLEY: Yes, well-- SUCHANEK: I think Tennessee is, is probably the, the-- KEIGHTLEY: Well they gonna, yeah Tennessee will be the odds on favorite, but ah, well I, I'll tell you Jeff, you know, the ah, my feeling is, and you kind of summarize it there... the league as a whole is ah, a question mark. When I say it's a question mark, it's as to who is going to be the really top teams. And I'll assure you the SEC will still, you know, they... somebody is going rise in this league and we've got a chance to do it. We really have, I mean I'm, I'm optimistic. Coach Gillispie is ah, very demanding and ah, our kids ah, you know, we're only into four days of practice, but, hey they work hard, and were a little short on quality, quality size, but ah, yes we, we got, we got a chance and, of course ah, Arkansas, Arkansas could be the real sleeper if, I don't know how John Leslie will be able to deal with some of the, some of the people he has on that team, and ah, hopefully everything will work out for John Leslie, but ah, then course you've got Alabama that will always be tough. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh, and Vanderbilt. KEIGHTLEY: And Billy in Florida, he, he's got quality players. So it's, he, it's going to be Tennessee and everybody else... supposed to be chasing 'em, but some of us may catch 'em. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. How about Vanderbilt this year? KEIGHTLEY: Ah, Vandy,.. probably's going to be a little, a little short on depth, this year, probably. SUCHANEK: They always have those deadly three point shooters don't they? KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, they do. They always, always, I don't care who coaches, they always have great shooters. SUCHANEK: They sure do. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. But I, you know I think they may be a little short on depth, but ah, probably have five quality starters. Ah, Mississippi State... will be a factor this year to. SUCHANEK: What kind of, ah, what kind of defense do you see coach Gillispie employing? Is he naming a man on man? KEIGHTLEY: He going to man, yeah, by, I, I guess he, I primarily see man-to-man, yes. SUCHANEK: Uh-huh. Are we too short to play zone? KEIGHTLEY: What's that? SUCHANEK: Are we too short to play zone? KEIGHTLEY: Well, I guess we could, I, ah we haven't of course got that deep into practice yet where we have worked on it. But I'm sure that we will. Yes I know we will. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. Now I noticed ah, in the, a midnight madness scrimmage they had, ah, that Williams in the middle looks like he's got some decent post moves, but he looks a little slow. KEIGHTLEY: Well, yeah he's, you know what, I, I'm, I'm surprised that, really in how much that he has improved since he's been here. Because ah-- SUCHANEK: He's really the only big body we've got I guess? KEIGHTLEY: It's a, yes, a big body, yes. You know, Patrick Patterson is not... as big a body as I thought he was when he was in high school, and I, I am sure Patrick is lost some weight. But you know Patrick's around 225, but ah, ah... Williams's is about 255. But he, he works hard. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: and of course in our situation he's going to have to contribute a little bit. But a yeah, I saw some post moves in that thing the other night, that I had not seen. [SUCHANEK laughing hard.] Yes, yes I did. And many people have, have commented on that. And ah-- SUCHANEK: [laughing] You tried-- KEIGHTLEY: And, ah, that one hook shot I have not witnessed this year, but I did, I did see that one. [Both laughing hard.] SUCHANEK: I remember, I think the last time, or two that we talked, you, you mentioned the fact that he needed a hook shot. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: Yes. SUCHANEK: Maybe, maybe he's been working on it. [Both laughing.] KEIGHTLEY: But I, you know, we got to hope he can peak and continue to develop. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: But we'll, you know, we gonna, we'll, we'll play hard, that's going to be it, we will overachieve. Yes we will overachieve, I, I... Coach Gillispie has...that ability... to get kids to overachieve. SUCHANEK: I was going to ask what kind of motivator is he? KEIGHTLEY: He's, he's, he's, he's a great motivator. You got it, yep. SUCHANEK: If you had to, if you had to rate coach Gillispie right now as a motivator, compared to Rick and Tubby and Joe B. Hall, who, how would you rate, where would you put coach Gillispie? KEIGHTLEY: Well, I'd rate this you know, with this, through this short period of time, he's, he's got to be, you know, right near the top of the list as a motivator. I mean this short period of time I have no doubt with his love and passion for basketball that ah, is his forte, is going to be motivating. You know, you've got to really motivate kids to play hard, which he-- it's difficult to come in and take over a squad, same as Tubby took over a squad from Rick. And ah, win those players over to your style, and ah, coach Gillispie has, has, has accomplished this in a short period of time, so, I can see as the season would roll on, ah he would, we would get better and better, maybe overachieve even more, because we will be in condition, and we will hustle, and it's a, it's a pleasure to watch. SUCHANEK: Uh-hum. KEIGHTLEY: I ah, I've enjoyed the, I enjoyed the practices. SUCHANEK: Well, I think with that will stop for today, and... [End of recording.] Keightley begins the interview with a discussion of new coach Billy Gillispie's recruiting efforts, and Keightley's role as unofficial diplomat to the parents of recruits on campus visits. He then discusses players from the late 90s and early 2000s, particularly those players who were less well known, and how they came to be recruited. Keightley covers walk-on tryouts, underdog schools which occasionally make the NCAA Tournament, and he concludes the interview with predictions for the upcoming season. UKAW; University of Kentucky Men's Basketball