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2004-10-26 Interview with Daniel Holt, October 26, 2004 2004OH189 LCC 005 1:24:51 CC002 Community Colleges of Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries Lexington Community College Lexington Technical Institute Daniel Holt; interviewee John D. Adams; interviewer Lexington Community College 2004OH189_LCC05_Holt 1:|32(8)|58(4)|92(8)|109(9)|141(8)|162(11)|191(7)|206(3)|224(2)|239(13)|263(3)|282(12)|295(10)|315(9)|330(3)|357(6)|390(5)|398(3)|409(2)|421(5)|468(6)|478(3)|499(2)|544(12)|569(11)|583(2)|609(10)|636(5)|650(7)|659(12)|686(2)|693(12)|716(3)|738(9)|773(2)|792(9)|807(7)|825(2)|839(3)|857(4)|877(12)|898(12)|921(9)|958(7)|988(12)|1006(7)|1021(9)|1045(2)|1081(10)|1097(1)|1109(7)|1120(5)|1129(7)|1145(2)|1158(4)|1171(10)|1196(4)|1223(2)|1246(2)|1270(4)|1313(10)|1342(12)|1361(13)|1386(11)|1408(3)|1439(14)|1475(3)|1503(9)|1523(11)|1549(5)|1560(10)|1581(4)|1626(12)|1644(7)|1673(2)|1695(5)|1707(3)|1717(10)|1730(7)|1746(9)|1758(14)|1771(10)|1784(2)|1799(9) audiotrans CommuColl interview ADAMS: This is an oral history interview with Dan Holt for the Lexington Community College Fortieth Anniversary Oral History Project. Uh, my name is, uh, John Adams. It's the--October the 26th 2004. We are conducting the interview in the Oswald Building, and first thing, I'd just like to know what's your full name for-- HOLT: Dan-- ADAMS: --the record. HOLT: --Daniel L. Holt. ADAMS: Daniel L. Holt. Um, when and where were you born? HOLT: I was born in Wheatcroft, Kentucky in 1939. [noise] ADAMS: Where at? HOLT: Wheatcroft, Kentucky. ADAMS: Wheatcroft. HOLT: A little town down in the western part of the state-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --um, in Webster County. It's about twenty-three miles northwest of Madisonville. ADAMS: Madisonville. HOLT: About two hundred and twenty-five miles from here. ADAMS: You've come a good distance. HOLT: (laughs) It's a long way getting here. ADAMS: (laughs) Tell me a, uh, a little bit about your parents; father's and mother's name, and that sort of thing. HOLT: My father was Elvis Holt. He was born in Union County, Kentucky. In a little, uh, town called Bordley. And, uh, quit school after the tenth grade, depression time; worked in the coal mines, and then, during the Second World War followed construction. He was a carpenter, foreman, on various construction sites, including the, uh, atomic energy plant at, uh, at Oak Ridge. ADAMS: Hmm. HOLT: So, some of my earlier memories are of those military bases where we were, uh, early in the war, and then at Oak Ridge in the last two years of the war. ADAMS: When you say, uh, dropped out of school, what--what-- HOLT: To the end of the tenth grade. ADAMS: The end of the tenth grade. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: How about your mother? HOLT: Mother was born also in Wheatcroft, well, in--on a farm just outside of Wheatcroft, and, uh, lived there until she married. Um, she graduated from high school at Wheatcroft. ADAMS: So she--she graduated----------(??)-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--all the way through? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: And she was from that area--area? HOLT: Yes. ADAMS: Okay. So your grandparents on her side were in that--that area as well? HOLT: Right. Well, Union County is an adjacent county to--to Webster County-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --and so they're--they all lived fair--fairly close together. Uh, but my grandparents lived all their lives in that--in that area. My great-grandmother was born, lived her entire life, in--in a house in Wheatcroft. She was born in, uh,1859, and, uh, died in 1957; ninety- eight. She was ninety-seven, she wasn't quite ninety-eight years old when she died. ADAMS: What, uh, what grades of school--did you attend, all your school there? At elementary and-- HOLT: --I attended--I started, uh, school in Tennessee. And in the middle of the first year of school we--the--the Second World War ended, or actually ended just before the semester started, but the project at Oak Ridge was winding down, and we came back. Dad had bought a farm in Webster County, and we moved back to the farm. My grandparents had passed away awhile, just a short time before the war was over, and we moved into their house for a short period of time, and then we built our own house up on--on our farm, and, um, I lived there until I was seventeen. I went to school at Wheatcroft. I started off--actually the--the, uh, last half of my first year I went to school at a little town called Sullivan. It was a one-room school, six--six grades in the school. And then went to Wheatcroft, and I was there until the seventh grade when the school burnt. And they consolidated the Wheatcroft district in--in--with the city school at Clay. Um, and I graduated then from Clay High School. ADAMS: So your first six years you were in a one-room school. HOLT: No, the last half of my first grade. ADAMS: First grade. HOLT: Right. And then the second grade, I started at-at Wheatcroft. I started originally in Kingston, Tennessee, one--one semester there, and we came back to Kentucky, and while we were living at my grandparent's house I went to school at Sullivan. Uh, when we finally got our house built on--on our farm, I started then to the Wheatcroft school. I started the second grade. ADAMS: And when did it burn down? HOLT: It burned during my seventh grade, seventh year of school. ADAMS: So from your second to seventh you-- HOLT: I was-- ADAMS:--went to school there. HOLT:--at Wheatcroft. ADAMS: And it--it wasn't a one-room school? HOLT: No, no. It was a, uh, one through twelve. ADAMS: But then it was consolidated like some schools were during that area? HOLT: Right. All the schools in that area now have consolidated into Webster County High. At the time I was in high school at Clay there were four high schools in--in, uh, the Webster County public school system. Plus the Providence High School was a--an independent district school. So we had five total high schools in the county. ADAMS: What did you, uh, think about the consolidation? HOLT: Didn't--didn't care much for it, because Clay was our--our big rival when the--the Wheatcroft school still existed. Of course we--we adjusted, and Clay became home. And when people ask where you're from, we now tell them we're from Clay, because a lot more people know about Clay than Wheatcroft (both laugh) ADAMS: Because I've--I've spoken to many people about, uh, going through consolidations and, and it--it's actually very traumatic for some people. I mean they--they said that, you know, they went from knowing everyone to being put in a situation and knowing hardly no one. HOLT: Right. Well, in--in a school like we had at Clay--and then you did know everybody, because my graduating class only had twenty-eight people in it. So we knew everybody first name basis, and everything that was going on in their lives practically. So it was very different consolidating--now they have the--the entire county, and of course people from one end of the county don't really know the people from the other end of the county. And it loses a lot in terms of--of the, uh, neighborhood friendliness of the school. I think you lose a lot in--in the neighborhood input into schools. ADAMS: That's what I was going to ask you, did you lose a lot of the buy-in that parents had-- HOLT: --oh yeah-- ADAMS:--when they had their local school? HOLT: Yeah. ADAMS: Not near the involvement? HOLT: No, no. ADAMS: Would you-- HOLT: --and--and that's evident in--in other schools, for example the sch--the county next to us at Union County. When I was in school there they had two main county schools; one in Sturgis and one in Morganfield. And they, oh, have been consolidated into Union County High now for, oh, probably forty years. And, uh, there's--there's still that rivalry among the--the parents. Um, they don't want--one- -one side doesn't want to cooperate with the other--(Adams laughs)--you know, because they're from Sturgis or they're from Morganfield and so forth. And so you--you do, you lose that cohesion of the neighborhood that--that supports the school. And over time, as those people that went to Sturgis or went to Morganfield are--are gone, and then you--you probably will start to lose that. But I don't think you'll ever back the amount of participation in schools that parents had during the time we had a number of schools. ADAMS: Now, the big argument with consolidation was that if you had more money in one--instead of spreading your money out into so many schools, you could do so much more. Do you believe that argument was true, or--false, or--what's your take on it? HOLT: Oh, I think it depended on the individual school. ADAMS: Uh-hm. HOLT: Uh, it depended on the quality of the teachers that they were able to get. In my own particular situation, at our high school we were very fortunate in having wives of professional people in the area. Uh, ministers and bankers and--and other people that, uh, there was really no other employment for them. And they taught, and they were very good teachers. And we got a very good education. Some of the other schools that were less fortunate, uh, they had teachers that were not as well-qualified, and, uh, when I enrolled in--in college I saw a big difference in the graduates from my school and graduates from other schools. And some of the other schools were larger and had more money than our school did. And we were always envious of them, and I always wished that we could to a school like that. But I think I got a better education than some of those other students from the other schools. And--and--and again it was evident in the standardized tests that were given in those schools; the entrance exams and those sorts of things. ADAMS: Okay, so what about the extracurricular activities? Do you see-- did you see a huge influx after the consolidation with that or not? HOLT: Oh yeah, of course they have more extracurricular activities than--than what we had. We--we had very few activities. Um, the high school where I went did not have a football team, for example. I went one year to the school at Sturgis and played football there, but other than that, there was no opportunity to play football. We had a fair basketball team, uh, but, we had, uh, no other sports to--to really talk about. Uh, during my junior year, I guess, they began to try to organize a band. So it'd be the first time that, uh, the school, that Clay School, had a--had a band. I played in the band at Sturgis my sophomore year. So I had one year experience with the band before I--I transferred back to Clay. And didn't choose to play in, in the--the, uh, Clay band because there were other things that I wanted to do at that time. But by being small we did, uh, lack a lot of the--the activities that everybody had in--in other schools. We had a Beta Club, but that was about it, as far as, uh, academic clubs or social clubs. ADAMS: What about FFA--something like that? HOLT: Oh, we had an FFA chapter, I think my freshman year in high school. And it kind of died out. ADAMS: Phased out. What instrument did you play? HOLT: I played trumpet and the tuba. ADAMS: I played tuba for seven years in band, you know. It was kind of interesting. HOLT: Yeah, yeah. ADAMS: Um, what--where did--where did you attend college? HOLT: I started at, uh, at Murray State. And, um, I was there full-time my first year. And then I went part-time off and on for the next two years. And I dropped out for a while to work, and then I went-- enrolled at, uh, at Western. And I graduated from Western. I got a BA and MA both, uh, both from there. ADAMS: How did you end up in UK? HOLT: (laughs) Well, when, um, I--when--when I started to school I was married. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: I had been out of school four years, had gone in the navy, and had gotten married and had a child. So, I had to work while I was in--in school. Oh, I worked the entire time I was at Western. I had a conference with the, uh, dean of instruction when I first arrived there, and, uh, he tried to get me not to go full-time. He--he just didn't think that students could go full-time to school and work full- time. Um, and--but for some reason he watched my progress and--and I did, I carried full load and I worked full-time. And graduated in--uh, I was looking for employment so I could go to work right after I got my--my BA degree. I was planning to teach. I got a call from his office and he asked me to, uh, come in and--and talk to him. Um, he wanted me to take a position in the counseling center, for a half-time position on a graduate fellowship, actually, and go to--go to graduate school. He wanted me to work with students who were having difficulty succeeding in college. Um, I--my degree wasn't in counseling, but because of my experience he--he thought that I would be able to assist students. So, I spent a year in the counseling center while I was doing graduate work. And then the next three years was on the staff at Western in an office that worked with students that were having various kinds of problems. Uh, we did a lot of counseling students on--on academic matters, and study habits, and--and that sort of thing. And, uh, as I worked there I enjoyed the work I was doing, and decided that- -that I wanted to get a doctorate in--in higher education and continue in that field. And so I came to the University of Kentucky to work on a doctorate, which I never finished. Um, but, uh, I needed a place to work, needed--needed employment while I was here. And a position became available as the admission--admissions officer, registrar, and financial aid officer for the college. And so-- ADAMS: (laughs) It was one position? HOLT: One position. ADAMS: (laughs) Okay. HOLT: So I took that position. And, uh, I think it was officially titled the admissions officer, but the other parts of it was added to it. Uh, I took that position and, uh, deferred starting my graduate work for a year, my--my doctoral program for a year. I started into the doctoral program the next year. And then, um, became the business manager of the college. And I decided about that time that what I was doing, and where I wanted to go, uh, the--the doctorate was--really wasn't going to do a whole lot for me. And so I dropped out of the program and worked for nine years as the business manager of the college. And when it became the community college a position opened for a full-time history professor and, uh, that was my graduate field. And so I applied for and got that position, and resigned from--from the--the business office. ADAMS: So I was going--so you got your, uh, bachelor's in history? HOLT: Yes. Well, I had a combination. I had a--a major in math and a major in history. ADAMS: Weird combination--(laughs)-- HOLT: Yeah. Well, there's a long story behind that too. Um, I was--was working on a--on a degree in math and physics-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --and there were some blind students that were in school at the time that needed a reader. And I started reading to them and, uh, I decided I might as well take the courses since I'm going to be reading the assignments anyway. So, you know, after a period of time I started looking around and I've almost got a major in history, uh, and I'm just starting into the physics. Also, I had a minor in political science by that time. So I decided, okay, I'll finish my history major and--and my math major and graduate; get out of here. (laughs) ADAMS: Right. Um-hm. HOLT: So that's--and then when I was working on my, uh, master's degree I went with history and political science. ADAMS: So what's your master's? HOLT: It's in history and political science. ADAMS: History and political science. Now you said, uh, you came here to work for the college in that combination-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--regis---when you said--was that for the University of Kentucky? Or-- HOLT: --I was employed actually with the Lexington Technical Institute. ADAMS: So what year was that when you came? HOLT: Nineteen seventy-two. ADAMS: So you came to Lexington Technical Institute in nineteen-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--seventy-two. HOLT: July first. ADAMS: July first. Well, that's a good starting date to remember, isn't it? HOLT: Yep. ADAMS: Um, what was the, uh, if you could, describe the affiliation between Lexington Technical Institute and UK at that time, '72? HOLT: At that time, uh, LTI, as it was called, was located on the third floor of Breckinridge Hall. Over in the--the quadrangle at the corner of Washington and--and Rose. Uh, we had at that time an acting director, M. L. Archer. He had a secretary. And, um, Toni Spence was coordinator of Student Services. Uh, she had one clerk, who had just started when I came. I made the second person in the Student Affairs area. At that time there were no full-time faculty for any of the fields other than, uh, the health professions, and one person in, uh, in business. That--that was Ruth Combs. Uh, Ben Averitt was--had been there for a year at that time. He was the, uh, counselor for, uh, handicapped students under a federal grant. In the, um, area there, I--in Breckinridge Hall, we had offices for, uh, Ruth Combs as the coordinator of business courses, business programs. Uh, there were several offices for nursing instructors. And Effie Kemp was the, um, coordinator of--of nursing. Her office was there. Uh, we had one office on the second floor; had a half-time person, and I can't remember her name, that was, uh, teaching data processing. Beyond that, all the rest of our offices were for dental lab tech, and, uh, radiology, respiratory therapy. They were all over in the medical center. Uh, we had a nursing lab in the basement of Funkhouser Hall. Uh, and that's really the only spaces that--that we controlled. For our classrooms we took space that was available wherever in--in the--in the university. After they plugged in all their course schedules, we got rooms allocated out of what was left. Uh, we taught all of the technical courses, and we maintained the records on those technical courses. All the rest of the classes were taken through the University of Kentucky. So, when a student applied to LTI for admission we would in turn fill out an application to the University of Kentucky for the student. And we would get them admitted, if they were qualified, they'd be admitted to the University of Kentucky to take their general studies classes. So they, they actually had two transcripts, one at LTI, and one at U of K. Uh, within a year, the University of Kentucky started maintaining that technical record as well. But we also retained internally a record of, uh, the LTI transcript and the university record as well, the university transcript. So in our offices we had all of the grades for the student; the entire record for the student. ADAMS: So--so basically, let's--let's just use this as an example. If a student came to work in a technical field they were actually a UK graduate, not an LTI graduate. HOLT: No-no, they were LTI graduates, not U. of K. graduates. ADAMS: Okay. So they were admitted at LTI? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: They took all their technical courses at LTI? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: And their math, history, or whatever, were--were then taken at UK? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: And two-year degrees? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: So-- HOLT: --that's all we offered, is two-year technical-- ADAMS: --right--. HOLT:--degrees. ADAMS: At that time, that was it. HOLT: Right, um-hm. ADAMS: Um, in your knowledge, in history, when was LTI founded? HOLT: Uh, in 1965. ADAMS: Nineteen sixty-five. HOLT: The Community College System was started in 1964-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --by an act of the Kentucky State Legislature. Uh, at that time it was placed under the auspices of the University of Kentucky for administrative purposes. And because of objections from the regional universities and so forth, uh, there was a provision written into the law that U. of K. could not operate a community college in Lexington. A lot of the others saw that this was unfair competition. Um, the complaint then--(coughs)--excuse me--the complaint then was--oh, that it didn't present an opportunity for people in this area to get those two-year degree programs that would be offered in the other community colleges. And so the law was created to authorize the University of Kentucky to offer courses of a community college nature, the technical courses. And, uh, Dr. John Oswald then created the Lexington and Technical Institute as a separate entity under the University of Kentucky, or part of the University of Kentucky, to offer those technical courses. And then for administrative purposes he placed LTI under the administration of the Community College System. ADAMS: So actually, LTI was not founded with the other community-- HOLT: --no-- ADAMS:--colleges here in the state. HOLT: That's right. ADAMS: So, LTI was more--well-- HOLT: Officially, LTI was a part of the University of Kentucky. We were an arm of the University of Kentucky. But because we were offering two-year degrees similar to, or identical to actually, that of the Community College System, Dr. Oswald by executive order, when he created the college, placed us under the administration of the system. ADAMS: So actually, LTI, or Lexington Community College, was very, very different from the other community colleges-- HOLT: --yes-- ADAMS:--that were established here in this state. HOLT: Yes. ADAMS: From its very creation it's been a part of UK. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: And UK decided to put administrative control under-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--the system. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: But that was a UK decision. HOLT: Right. That's right. It could have operated LTI as a department of the University of Kentucky had John Oswald chosen to--to do it that way. ADAMS: Similar to the med center, and other-- HOLT: -right-- ADAMS:--facets. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: And do you think a lot of that decision was made because of political-- HOLT: --I'm not really sure-- ADAMS:--pressures?-- HOLT:--what Dr. Oswald's motives were. Uh, I know that--that he had a goal that he--he was never able to see achieved, of--of the University of Kentucky being an upper division and graduate university with the, uh, li--the freshman and sophomore years being se--a separate part of--and actually his goal was a--a California system, where, uh, the University of Kentucky would be the center of--of the entire higher education system in the state. But he saw U. of K. as being the--the graduate and upper division senator--center of--of the sys--of the system. ADAMS: So more, in his opinion, LTI was freshman-sophomore, then-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--then when you went to junior-senior, you went to UK and on up-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--through graduate. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Do you think the political pressures of the other institutions and everything is what caused that dream not to come true? HOLT: Oh yeah. Definitely. And especially when U. of L. became part of the system. Uh, U. of L. wasn't about to, uh, come into a system where the U. of K. was going to be, uh, a controlling factor. ADAMS: Um, prior to the, uh, formation of the Lexington technical institution, in your opinion, who was pushing in the corporate slash- business community for LTI to be created and why? HOLT: I really can't answer that. Uh, I think probably there was some pressure from--from IBM and some other areas. Because immediately LTI began to work with IBM with a manufacturing degree; with some of the other areas in, uh, uh, the mechanical engineering and, and that sort of thing. But LTI really starts off, uh, as a--a medical component. The first two programs were dental lab tech and nursing. And their first classes had ten students in each. Incidentally, when LTI first started, Ellis Hartford was the, uh, vice president for community colleges, and he was also the acting director for LTI. Uh, the offices for LTI were in a house down on, uh, Euclid Avenue. And I'm not sure just when they moved to Breckinridge Hall, but for at--at least a short period of time, uh, LTI operated out of--out of a house that had been turned into office space down on--on Euclid Avenue. ADAMS: So they started out down on Euclid Avenue, and moved to Breckinridge-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--offered some courses--the administrative offices never were in the basement of Funkhouser. HOLT: No, just a--a--in the sub-basement of Funkhouser there was a nursing lab. ADAMS: So the lab was offered and then-- HOLT: --right, yeah we had-- ADAMS:--classes were just scattered. HOLT: Yeah, we had classes scattered all over the university campus. ADAMS: Okay. So from prior to this campus being constructed, did the administrative offices of LTI move anywhere else out of Breckinridge? HOLT: No. ADAMS: Okay. HOLT: No. All the administrative offices were on the third floor of Breckinridge Hall. ADAMS: And when you started in '72-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--that's where you started working? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Okay. Um, could you describe--you mentioned, uh, President Oswald? But outside of that, could you describe the early leadership of LTI and how did it break down from him down? HOLT: Well, president Oswald was, uh, the president of the University of Kentucky, and then under him was the, uh, the vice president of community college--of the Community College System. Uh, then below the president of the Community College System, uh, were the directors of all the--the colleges in--in the system. And LTI in fact really becomes one of those. Uh, we had an acting director. Uh, Charles Wethington was acting director for a period of time before he went to, uh, to Maysville as, uh, as--director of the Maysville Community College. Uh, incidentally, they've since changed that term. I--it--it was in the, um, in the 1980s, after we became a Community College System that they changed the, uh, the title of the, uh, chief executive of--of the college from director to--to president. ADAMS: In 1980? HOLT: It was in the eighties, about '85--'84 or '85 when they actually made that change and began to refer to the, uh, head of the school as the president rather than the--than the director. Uh, after Wethington, I'm not sure if there were, if there was another acting director, um, between him and--and M. L. Archer. When I came in '72 M. L. Archer, who was a former superintendent of the, uh, Scott County school system, uh, was the acting director. And he remained in that position until 1974. Um, following 1974, he announced his retirement; actually it was the spring of 1974 he announced that he was going to retire. And we did a--a search for a new director of--William Price, Bill Price as we refer to him, uh, was at that time the associate director, director for Academic Affairs at Henderson. Uh, he was chosen to be our new director. He came in 1974, the fall of 1974, to work with Mr. Archer. And then beginning in January of '75, uh, he became the--the director of the college. And he would remain as director until 1983, and it was in that transition period, um, in--in early 1975, when, um, I assisted Bill Price in--in writing the budget proposal for the school for the following year that, uh, he got a position funded for a business manager, and, uh, offered the position to me. And I accepted, and I remained then in that position until July 1st, 1984. ADAMS: Is that when you began teaching? HOLT: I started teaching history full-time at that point. ADAMS: So you had, uh, Wethington. Dr. Wethington, was he the first acting director of LTI? HOLT: --well, Ellis Hartford was. ADAMS: Ellis Hartford, then-- HOLT: Then Wethington. ADAMS: Then Archer. HOLT: Then, as far as I know, Archer was next. ADAMS: Then Price. HOLT: Price. Oh, in '83, when Price left, oh, Sharon Jaggard, who was at that time the--or had been the, um, associate director for Academic Affairs, uh, became the interim president. And then in '84 was selected to be the president of the college. Um, she remained I think about a year and she left. And, uh, Allen Edwards who had been the, uh, acting director, became the, uh, director. Um, I'm trying to think of the series of events. I'm not sure how long, uh, Dr. Edwards held the position. When he left--going to a school down in, uh, in Tennessee. Uh, it was-- ADAMS: --how long do you think he stayed? HOLT: I'm not sure, uh, it's been a while. (laughs) ADAMS: A few days back? HOLT: Four or five years, but, uh, oh-- ADAMS: --about till '90, approximately. HOLT: Yeah, probably. Uh, Tony Newberry became the, uh,--acting director for a year. And then, uh, at the end of that term, uh, the school, uh, the school chose Dr. Friedel from Iowa to be the--the new president of--yeah, by that time they were calling it president, to be the new president. ADAMS: What was his last name? HOLT: It's--it was a woman. Friedel. F-r-i-e-d-e-l. ADAMS: F-r-i-e-d-e-l. What was her first name, do you remember? HOLT: Oh, I think it was Janice, but I'm--I'm not-- ADAMS: So about-- HOLT: --positive, but I believe that was her name (??). ADAMS: It's about '91, '92? HOLT: Somewhere along there, so. ADAMS: Okay. HOLT: And I'm not sure of the exact year. I mean, you know, when you--that over time they start to run together. Uh, she was here for a relatively short time, and then, um, she left and, um, Dr., uh, Jim Chapman became the, uh, acting president. ADAMS: About '92? HOLT: Um, probably a little later than that. Uh, again, I'm not sure, you know. But, uh, Chapman left and, uh, uh--I was trying to get, uh, yeah, I guess, uh, Dr. Kerley would be the next--next president. I was thinking back, uh, when--when Dr. Jaggard left, oh, I believe Ben Carr was the acting president for a short period of time. ADAMS: Before Edwards? HOLT: Yeah. ADAMS: Okay. And who did you say was, uh, before Wethington? HOLT: Ellis Hartford. ADAMS: Ellis Hartford. HOLT: He was also the vice president for Community Colleges. ADAMS: Gotcha. HOLT: So he had a--a dual role during that period of time. ADAMS: Gotcha. Chip Hartford; Wethington; Archer; Price; Jaggard uh, Ben-- HOLT: --Carr. ADAMS: Carr; Allen Edwards, Tony Newberry; Janice; Jim Chapman, and Dr. Kerley. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Okay. So there's been a few since then. HOLT: Yep, we've had a few. ADAMS: When LTI was, uh, formed, '64-'65, right? HOLT: Sixty-five. ADAMS: Sixty-five. HOLT: Yeah. It started the fall semester with twenty students in '65. ADAMS: Um, what purpose was LTI supposed to serve? HOLT: It was to provide the, uh, two-year technical degrees in a variety of fields to meet the--the needs of the, uh, health professions in the area and, uh, businesses in the area; businesses and industries. ADAMS: So it's safe to say that a lot of your business industries here in this community was really pushing for this. HOLT: I would say probably, yes, particularly the hospitals and so forth. Um, you--you can look at the--the programs we had in health at that time. We had, um, nursing, of course, which had--had--had grown; by the time I got here in '72 had grown to a couple hundred students. It was the biggest element of the college. You had dental laboratory technology, um, respiratory therapy, instead of they called it insola- -inhalation therapy until that time, and then they found out that people had to breath out as well, so--(Adams laughs)--so they named it respiratory therapy, and radiography, um, encephalography. ADAMS: What was that? HOLT: It was, um, the study of the brainwaves and I'm not quite sure what all that, uh, entailed. Um, but those were--were the--the medical programs that we were offering. Um, of course by 1972 when I came here we also had gone into civil, mechanical, electrical engineering. We had a course in wood technology program; um, architectural technology. And then in the--business fields we had, um, um, accounting; business management, and data processing, um, transportation technology. I guess that was it, all the--all the various businesses fields that we had. ADAMS: So for a, um, for a technical institute to start really focusing on health, by--by 1972 less than ten years later, they had really expanded. HOLT: Yeah we had a--around twenty total programs by 1972. And 750 students enrolled, uh, in the, uh, the year before I came. ADAMS: How many was that? HOLT: Seven-fifty. ADAMS: Seven hundred and fifty students. Okay. Now what role, if any, did you see LTI playing in the overall Community College System? HOLT: Oh, we had a small voice in--in--in the system because we had, um, by--by the population that we had we were entitled to two members of the Senate and--and that sort of thing, but overall really not a whole lot at that time. ADAMS: Do you think some of the other community colleges, knowing that the way LTI was formed different from them maybe held some grudges or anything of that nature? HOLT: No, I don't really think so. I think a little later on, uh, there is some element of--kind of a jealousy of--of this college and, um, um, Jefferson Community College. And I think you see some evidence of the, uh, the other community colleges kind of banding together to kind of get their will in a number of things happening within the--the Senate. But, uh, not--not until we be--began to become a much larger school. And I think there was a--a false perception that--that somehow we were kind of favored. But if you look at the budgetary side of it, uh, far from it; that we were always funded at the low end of--of the system. ADAMS: Why do you think that's so? HOLT: Because of the, uh, our presence here on the University of Kentucky. And I think that, uh, was due to--to some extent it's--was- -was political, trying to play the politics of--of the, uh, other areas of the state. Um, the squeaky wheel gets the grease more or less, you know, and, uh, people out there were looking to fund their local college, where people here were looking more to fund the University of Kentucky. And so we're kind of left sitting on the sideline. ADAMS: So you think the actual demographic of where we were located actually hurt LTI? HOLT: As far as funding, yes. As far as population, no. ADAMS: So you got more people with less money. HOLT: Got more people with less money. (Adams laughs) We had a saying for a long time around here, uh, kind of coin--coining the phrase from--from Churchill, you know: "never have so few done so much with so little for so many." (both laugh) ADAMS: And--and that became, uh, an expected thing from the higher administration at UK, didn't it. HOLT: Oh yeah. ADAMS: They--they kind of wanted, um, LTI to be the jewel, but they didn't want to give the funds for it to be a jewel. Is that correct? HOLT: Well, uh, to--to some extent. But also, uh, LTI came to be looked on as, by--by many at the University of Kentucky, as being the place for--for people who couldn't make it at U. of K.; uh, didn't have what it took to--to be admitted at U of K. And, um, um, some people had the perception that LTI was going to be much easier than the University of Kentucky. So, if a student wasn't doing well at--at U of K, they would advise him to go over to--to LTI. Well some of the--a lot of the students who came to LTI found that it's, uh, pretty tough here. Um, some of them said: I'm going back to the U of K where it's easier. (both laugh) So, there was that perception both ways. ADAMS: Do you think that that perception was at all community colleges, that they were easier than the four-year institutions, or just LTI in particular? HOLT: Oh I think that there's that perception of all community colleges as far--as the--as--as many of the people at--at the universities are-- are concerned. ADAMS: People in the communities, or people at other higher education institutions? HOLT: Well, I think there's probably some of it at the communities too. But other higher education institutions do tend to--to--I think tend to look at--at the Community College Systems as being the weak sisters, the easy place to go. Um, and a lot of students look at the community college as a place to go because they think they can't make it in--in the quote-unquote big university. ADAMS: Right. HOLT: Um, a lot of students are not comfortable with going to a large school and the community colleges are smaller. So they're--they're a lot more comfortable starting there and then they find out that they can make it, and they go on to the--the University of Kentucky or one of the regional universities and--and they do quite well. As a matter of fact, um, statistics show that students who graduate from here actually do better than the students who took their first two-year--do better in the last two years, than the students who took their first two years at the university of Kentucky. So they get a good--good foundation. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Uh, it's not easy here, but, uh, they do get the basics. So that when they go to the University of Kentucky they're--they're prepared to succeed. ADAMS: Do you think that's because of, uh, class sizes are smaller? It helps with the transition from a high school to a college mentality? HOLT: Yes. ADAMS: You get more attention? HOLT: Right. And--and that's--I think that's a big factor. They get more attention; they get more personal--one-on-one relationships with their instructors, and they're not dealing with graduate assistants. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Um, so I think that makes a big difference in--in-- ADAMS: Well I--it would be very interesting to know the ratio between, uh, professors and students at--at Lexington Community College versus that of UK. It'd probably be breathtaking, actually-- HOLT: Um-hm. Um-hm. ADAMS:--especially if you take out the graduate assistants-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--out of the picture, who teach a lot of your undergrad courses anymore. HOLT: Well, we don't have classrooms with three hundred people-- ADAMS: --right-- HOLT:--taking a history class for example, or a calculus class. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Um, so there's a lot more opportunity for interchange between the, uh, actual professor of their class and--and, uh, and the student than at U. of K. ADAMS: When did Lexington Technical Institute change its name to Lexington Community College? HOLT: In, uh, 1984. ADAMS: Okay. Now in 1984 was, uh, Lexington Community College still located--it wasn't, was it-- HOLT: --no-- ADAMS:--over on that campus. HOLT: No, we-- ADAMS: --when did they come on to these current facilities?-- HOLT:--we moved into the Oswald Building on the sixteenth of August of 1976. ADAMS: The sixteenth of August? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Still under the name of Lexington Technical Institute. HOLT: Right. The decision was made that we would offer all our own classes and, um, actually have totally separate registration. Um, the whole bit was made in '83 as U. of K. transitioned to their, uh, selective enrollments. They raised their--their standards and set up selective enrollments, and we became a community college. We had a--a year of transition, from '83 to '84, and during that period of time, um, total re-organization of the college. Um, we had already started offering some of our classes, such as English, uh, some of the math, uh, some of the--those sorts of things in '84, but we--we take the full, uh, general education program at, uh, at the Lexington Community College. ADAMS: Okay, so with the name change also came the whole reorganization? HOLT: Right. Right. [Pause in recording.] ADAMS: So in 1984 is when--is that when we s--we as mean--as meaning Lexington Community College, because it-- by that time the name had changed, started offering our--our, uh, two-year degrees in less technical programs? HOLT: Yes. Yeah that--that was the first time we were able to offer the associate in arts and associate in science degrees; two-year level. ADAMS: What--what brought around--about this change? HOLT: The, uh, university moved to a selective admissions. Um, they raised the qualifications for being admitted to the University of Kentucky, and that left no place for the students who were below that level to enroll in a--in a local school. Uh, it was going to send the students to Eastern, or Western, or wherever. And so the decision was made that we would become a community college, uh, and that would open the door then for the students in this service area, uh, to--to get the first two years of a four-year college degree. Also at that point, a lot of the students who would be enrolling at, uh, what becomes LCC, uh, or if it had stayed LTI, a lot of the students who--who would be enrolling there would, uh, not have been qualified to enter the University of Kentucky with their admission standards, okay? So, that again, our--our situation played-- played a role in that, because we s--we still needed to offer those classes. The University of Kentucky wanted to move in a--a different direction, and our students would not--would not have had those basic courses available to them had we not changed to the community college structure. ADAMS: So basically, the reason we are the way we are is because they changed to a selective admission-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--standards-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--and of course they didn't want to lose out-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--on all the students that were here that would eventually--I guess you've heard the term feeder college? HOLT: Right. Well, we sent large numbers of students to the University of Kentucky. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Uh, the bulk of the students who transferred from here would go to--to U of K. And so it--it was an important feeder element for the University of Kentucky, no doubt about it. ADAMS: Now, we mentioned earlier, on August 16th 1976, is when LTI moved into what is now called the Oswald-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--building. Prior to that, you came to the university in 1972, correct? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: This current location of where we are sitting today, what was it like in 1972? HOLT: When I first came here in '72, this was a dairy farm. ADAMS: (laughs) Right. HOLT: The old dairy barn still, uh, the Good Barn, still exists, across the-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT:--parking lot and across University Drive from us. Um, at that time U. of K. played football at old Stoll Field, down at the corner of Rose and--and Euclid. Um, Stoll Field was a very old stadium. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: It was small, ivy-covered--you know, the typical thing that you--you think about when you think about older colleges. But it was also in--in, uh, in pretty bad shape. And, uh, the football program felt that it needed a larger stadium; it needed more parking space. Uh, so the decision was made to build a football stadium, uh, at the south end of the campus. And so the dairy farm was selected as the place where that stadium would be built because there was lots of space, and I think there was probably some, uh, declining emphasis of, uh, the--the dairy program at--at University of Kentucky. Um, they had also acquired a farm out, uh, toward the north side of town and, uh, a lot of that shifted out into that area. So, uh, this was the space that was available. And beginning, I think in '73, they began the construction of--of the stadium. And, um, when money was allocated in '74 by the state legislature to build a facility for the Lexington Technical Institute the decision was made that it would be out adjacent to the stadium so that they could access the, uh, the parking lot for the stadium. ADAMS: So much-- HOLT: --so the legislature in '74 allocated money for the construction of the school; six million dollars. At that time there was a--a little gravel road that turned off Cooper Drive coming back in toward the stadium here. And there were a couple of medical--a couple of metal sheds that the, uh, the college of agriculture used for storing equipment. Uh, those had to be torn down, the road had to be relocated. And, uh, new buildings were built up on top of the hill to replace those metal sheds. The, uh, one of the barns that was used for the dairy farm still exists up on almost to the top of the hill. Uh, it was turned--it had already been turned into a--a motor pool. Um, all the university's motor pool cars are--are in the fenced area there and serviced inside that old barn. Of course it's been modernized and--and, uh, more like a garage now than--than a barn. (Adams laughs) Uh, they completed the stadium and, uh, then our facility was, uh, was started in, uh, in the summer of--of '74 here. Um, they--this, the Oswald building, rests on, uh, round vertical columns that go down to the--however low they go: I guess to--to rock, I'm not sure. But anyway, they go down so deep as a--a foundation for the, uh, for the school. And then the whole, uh, building rests on those--those columns. In the summer of 1974 they did the site-work and poured the holes, and started pouring those columns. And they got 'em up at ground level. And then because of, uh, budget constraints, uh, the state decided to stop construction. And so it sat that way for close to a year. And then the freeze was taken off the money, and construction resumed, and, uh, it was scheduled for occupancy the first of July of--of '76. And we scheduled classes in this building for the fall semester of 1976, incidentally, against my wishes. I tried to point out that we could schedule our classes in buildings--the classrooms at uni--at the University of Kentucky. And if the building was complete by the time the fall semester started we could post notices. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Whereas if we scheduled in this building-- ADAMS: --hold you to it-- HOLT:--and it wasn't complete, then students wouldn't have access to those classrooms to see where they were supposed to go, and it was going to cause confusion. But we were assured that the building would be ready. By the first of July we'd be able to move equipment in and all that. Um, it wasn't. (Adams laughs) On the, uh, sixteenth of August, uh, in 1976, we held our faculty orientation to start the academic year. And we held that in the auditorium because there--there wasn't any furniture in any--any other areas of the school. (Adams laughs) We did have trucks backed up out here to unload that morning. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: And we began to assemble tables and desks and so forth in various areas of the school. Um, most of the se--of the second floor, the main floor was completed. The first floor, which was the engineering program area, uh, was not complete; was not accessible. And, um, the, uh, east side of the third floor was not yet complete. So we started classes in this building in the latter part of August 1976 with the construction activity still going on in those--those various areas. So it was kind of an interesting time. ADAMS: So, even from its very beginning it's had space constraints? HOLT: Well, temporarily, yes. But after the construction people moved out we had lots of space, uh, as--so much so, as a matter of fact that in that winter that followed, the winter of '76-'77, uh, there was a shortage of natural gas. And it was a rather cold winter. And so a decision was made to close the vocational technical school for the winter. They winterized the buildings and--and brought their--their staff--or the--the administrative buildings. I think they still had classrooms open in--in ky--in one of the other buildings. But we had, uh, a number of their staff that came here, um, and used our facilities for--for office space. ADAMS: Hmm. And where was that at? That what--what was the name of that building? HOLT: This--it was in this building here. The Central Kentucky Voca-, Vocational Technical school out on Leestown Road-- ADAMS: --closed some out there-- HOLT: They, they-- ADAMS:--and came out here. HOLT:--they closed one ----------(??) building and came and used our-- our buildings until the weather, uh, warmed up. So they were here for several months. But it didn't take long for us to reach a point that, uh, this building was totally occupied. We were looking for space. ADAMS: So, in your opinion, this current location of where the Oswald Building sits was chosen because of parking. HOLT: Yes. ADAMS: So where Lexington Community College sits, the reason it was chose, was because of the ample parking capabilities that they would house-- HOLT: --I think so, yeah. It was--they didn't have to worry about acquiring additional space and--and building parking spaces. Of course there's als--also the proximity of the medical center for our medical students. But at the same time there was a plan for the, uh, the long- range master plan for the school, for a campus to be developed for us out on what--what has come to be called the South Farm-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --uh, the farm out near Waveland out off of Nicholasville Road. Of course that plan was never carried through and none of our, uh, facilities were ever--ever built out there. ADAMS: Now the land that this building sits on, unlike the other community colleges where the state designated that land for that purpose, this land was chosen--UK said we could use it. HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--for this-- HOLT: Right. ADAMS: So that's-- HOLT: --the decision was made at the--at the University of Kentucky in the--the administrative levels that this would be where it would be located. ADAMS: So the state did not allocate the property for LCC to use. The university said it could be used for that. HOLT: Yes. ADAMS: Okay. Now when did the, uh, AT Building and the Moloney Building come around? HOLT: Oh, the, uh, Moloney Building I think was started--I believe it was the fall of '84, and dedicated about a year later, but I'm not sure of the exact dates on them. The AT Building, uh, came into existence in the, uh, the early nineties. ADAMS: So for almost ten years the only building here was the Oswald Building. HOLT: Right. Right. ADAMS: And as, uh, first mentioned, at first there was ample space, but I guess after ten years, and the population-- HOLT: This is very rapidly-- ADAMS:--in enrollments. HOLT:--grow--growing school. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: And, um, it was--of course, this school I'm told was, uh, no this building, was designed to offer just the technical part of our degree program, for something like twenty-five hundred students. That would be assuming that all the history, and math, and English, and psychology, and all those classes would be taken at the University of Kentucky. By the time the Moloney Building opened, we had exceeded that, but we were also--we had exceeded that number of--of students, but we were also offering all of our classes here. So we were really bursting at the seams. ADAMS: How many students do you think were taking classes here in the Oswald Building prior to the Moloney Building been built. HOLT: I'm not sure of the exact number. I would say it was, would be approaching four--four thousand students at--by the time the Moloney Building was built. ADAMS: Close to double-- HOLT: --yeah-- ADAMS:--the space that was supposed to be used. HOLT: Um-hm. ADAMS: Okay. And I guess then that's what brought on the decision to have the Moloney Building built. HOLT: Right, and the AT, the Academic Technical Building. ADAMS: So each building was built because of enrollment increases. HOLT: Sure. ADAMS: And I guess it was just: well, since the Oswald Building's here, we'll build them right next? HOLT: Right. Right. ADAMS: And since that one building looks that way we will build them all to look alike? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Okay. And I'm guessing the state had to allocate money for each one of these-- HOLT: --yes-- ADAMS:--buildings? HOLT: Yes. The state allocated money specifically for the, uh, for Lexington Community College. Or Lexington Technical Institute in--in the case of the Oswald Building. But Lexington--Lexington Community College for the Moloney Building and for the academic technical building. ADAMS: So these three buildings were built with state money allocated just for-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--Lexington Community's Colleges purpose-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--put on University of Kentucky property. HOLT: Correct. ADAMS: Boy that was a powder keg waiting to happen wasn't it? HOLT: Yep, it was. ADAMS: Um, so in your opinion, would you say that these, uh, these buildings--I know the answer to this currently, but in the past have always had problems with, uh, pressure and constraints of over- enrollment for its size and space? HOLT: Oh I think so, I mean--except for the--in the first probably a year and a half of--of the Oswald Building. Uh, beyond that, yes, we've had space constraints. ADAMS: What was it like for the faculty and staff, as well as the community, if you can answer this, when these facilities were being built. When the Oswald Building started being built was that something that the community really looked forward to or--or do you know?-- HOLT: --I don't think the community really paid a whole lot of attention to it at that point. Uh, the faculty and staff of--of LTI did. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Uh, they were very frequently out here looking at, you know, what was going on as far as construction of the building was concerned. Um, I was a, uh, the school's liaison in the construction and, uh, constantly consulting with other members of the faculty. They're in checking on, uh, first one thing and then another relative to the facility. Where they're going to be in the building and, uh, you know, what their needs were going to be to make sure that everything was there as--as they needed it. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: So it was an interesting time. ADAMS: So you--you knew exactly what this land looked like before they scooped the first-- HOLT: --oh yeah-- ADAMS:--dirt. When you said this was a dairy farm, was it just a big open field or was it swampy, or--? HOLT: No, no. It was a big open field, and, um, cattle grazing; places where they were baling hay. Uh, this farm extended from Nicholasville Road all the way over to Tates Creek-- ADAMS: --oh my gosh! HOLT:--or almost to Tates Creek. Um, and from this, uh, well by--by '72 Shawneetown had already been built, that's the student housing area. That was built at the--the back end. Uh, the access for--for that was off of Nicholasville Road. And, uh, along Nicholasville Road was pastureland, with the, uh, the dairy barn, uh, standing back out where it still--the--the Good Barn, that was the--the dairy farm; another barn up on the hill. And along Cooper Drive then was the, uh, I mean it was just--it was just field except for the little gravel road that went up back up to the barn on the hill; and had a couple of little metal buildings there, so-- ADAMS: Cooper didn't go all the way to Tates Creek? HOLT: Yes. It did. That, uh, somebody asked me the question about that the other day, uh, when that was cut-through and--and I don't know. It was, it was through, uh, when I came here in '72. ADAMS: Okay. So over there where the soccer field is, the new gym, all that--that was just open field. HOLT: Yeah. ADAMS: And then that road went through-- HOLT: --well the, uh, when I came here in '72, the U. of K. practice field that's on the left side of the road was there. Um, but the, uh, the tennis courts, the soccer fields, uh, none of that was there. ADAMS: Was that, uh, Tates Creek neighborhood that run--or the Cooper Drive neighborhood, was it there in '72-- HOLT: --oh yeah-- ADAMS:--like it is now? HOLT: Yeah, that's--that, uh, neighborhood, the Montclair Subdivision area-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT:--that--that whole area, beyond KET-- ADAMS:--um-hm-- HOLT: --was developed probably in the late forties. ADAMS: Okay. HOLT: There are a number of, uh, of houses in that area. Some of those houses are older than that. But there are a number of houses in that area that, uh, were the, uh, uh, Gunnison and United States Steel houses. They were prefabricated houses, uh, brought in and set on the foundation. And they started doing that in about 1946. ADAMS: Hmm. Okay. HOLT: So, that's basically when that--that area built up. Um, someone told me that Cooper Drive was not open all the way through in 1965, so somewhere between 1965 and, uh, '72 that, uh, that street opened all the way through. But I'm not sure of the--the exact date. ADAMS: When did the KET building--when was it built? Do you know? HOLT: No, I don't. ADAMS: Was it--was it built before Oswald? HOLT: Uh-uh. ADAMS: Okay. HOLT: I don't think so. ADAMS: Why, okay, and you might not know this-- HOLT: --maybe it was, but I know the, uh, the athletic building wasn't. ADAMS: Is that property--I would think it would--was owned by UK at one time, wasn't it? Where KET sits? HOLT: I think so, but I'm not sure. ADAMS: It's odd that they would sell that so close to their campus. But I guess at that time there wasn't near as many cars on Nicholasville Road either. (laughs) HOLT: That's true. ADAMS: In seventy-two. HOLT: Of course having KET, uh, that accessible to the University of Kentucky would be an advantage too, so. ADAMS: Right. What do you think were, um, the attitudes of most of the faculty and staff about being able to be located in one building? HOLT: Oh, I think they welcomed it. They thought it was great. ADAMS: Versus being scattered. HOLT: Yeah. ADAMS: Now, at that time--at that time, you were still on the administrative side, it wasn't-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--until '84 that you became-- HOLT: --right-- ADAMS:--on the faculty side. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Was there that, uh, us-they mentality with UK at that time? Or did most people were UK employed were just a faction of? HOLT: Yeah, it was a, it was a--an us-they. They were--we were not, as far as they were concerned, we weren't part of the University of Kentucky ----------(??). We didn't have anybody in the--in the Senate, or on the--most of the UK committees, we didn't have anybody on those committees. We were--we were viewed by the U. of K. faculty as being this separate little entity that was a part of the Community College System. ADAMS: Like dirt under the nails, so to speak. HOLT: Yep. Well, okay, yeah, it was for some, yes. Now there were some- -and--and many I should say, of the professors that at U. of K. who were very friendly and, uh, very accepting. But there were some who--who really looked at that this as being beneath the University of Kentucky. ADAMS: Do you think that had to do with, uh, upper administration filtering down or the way people think-- HOLT: --well, I think it had more to do with--with the--the academic side of it. I mean, they had doctorates and most of our people didn't. And, um, you know, we had a--had a--had a lower standard for, uh, faculty members and--and that sort of thing. ADAMS: So it--it didn't necessarily come down from the president down, down, down, and filter into the faculty, it was more of what-- HOLT: --oh no I don't think so-- ADAMS:--people think of now. HOLT: Right. Right. ADAMS: I mean people view community colleges at that level. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Okay. What do you think were some of the early challenges and accomplishment of LTI when it became LCC. HOLT: Well, one of the early challenges was--was just getting visibility. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: And, uh, getting people to become aware that we were here. Uh, and I think one of the big accomplishments was the growth that we demonstrated. Uh, also the acceptance of our graduates. Uh, our--our graduates had very little problems in finding employment. Um, this school attracted people from a great many areas. Um, when I came here in '72 we had students who were enrolling from, oh, a large number of states. Uh, we had students from practically every county in Kentucky. Um, our dental laboratory technology program was recognized as being one of top in the country. Our nursing program, in 1972 for the first time, one hundred percent of our graduates passed the, uh, state board exams for--for nurses, um, for--for the RN. Uh, our students were two- year students competing with three-year students from eastern and four- year students from the University of Kentucky, and, uh, we had a hundred percent pass. Uh, our radiology program was viewed nationally as being, uh, an excellent program. Uh, we started a nuclear medicine program that was exceptional, uh, in--in this--in the nation. So, uh, in those areas, uh, we excelled. And--and people began to see it, and that was a--a major accomplishment. We had, uh, people in, uh, the engineering fields that were--were, uh, getting very good jobs coming out--out of LTI, particular--particularly in electrical and electronic engineering. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Uh, so it was--it was highly respected around the country. Uh, we had people coming here from foreign countries. Um, uh, ESSO oil company-- ADAMS: --um-hm-- HOLT: --actually sent students to us to get a two-year degree in accounting to work in their--their, uh, business areas, uh, in their- -their overseas holdings. Uh, we had a--at that time a secretarial science program in Spanish. And we had students coming here from Venezuela, uh, from other, uh, Latin American areas. But I remember specifically Venezuela as being one of those areas where we had, uh, students enrolling. ADAMS: What do you think led this--to all this national recognition? I mean was it something-- HOLT: --quality of graduates. ADAMS: Okay, so it wasn't actually the school itself out there pushing, it was-- HOLT: --no, we-- ADAMS:--we let our students do the talking-- HOLT:--we did very little, uh, we--we didn't have the--the funding to do a great deal of advertising. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: Um, when I came and--and was the admissions officer and registrar, uh, I worked with other people to develop this--a series of brochures that I carried out to the high schools. ADAMS: Um-hm. HOLT: And one of the questions was: "What's an LTI?" Um, in the seventeen-county region that was our service area, uh, there were people who still had not heard of us, and, uh,-- ADAMS: --seventeen-county? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Okay. So basically a lot of the success was just word of mouth. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: You let your students do the talking. HOLT: Right. ADAMS: Basically. They got out, proved themselves: where did you come from? HOLT: Right. ADAMS: So on and so on-- HOLT: --and then we, of course began to develop a--a recruiting program. We developed, uh, things that we could do to take to, uh, college fairs and things like that. So we'd become better known, course with the more students graduating, um, and going out in the workfield, the more we became known. But, in about '77 or '78, to give you an idea of how little the school was known, uh, we had a--a, uh, touch football team participating in intra--intramural sports and, uh, they won. And the Kernel wrote it up as the Lambda Tau Iota fraternity. ADAMS: (laughs) You're kidding me. HOLT: Nope, I don't kid you at all ADAMS: That's really good. HOLT: (coughs) I mean, here's a college that at that time had, oh probably close to three thousand students. ADAMS: And the Kernel wrote it (laughs) HOLT: The college newspaper, the University of Kentucky newspaper wasn't aware we existed and called us Lambda Tau Iota--Lambda Tau Iota, uh, fraternity-- ADAMS: -oh gosh-- HOLT:--LTI. ADAMS: You--you mentioned earlier that, uh, there was a recruiting program that was started. Do you know when that was really started? HOLT: Oh, I started going out in the spring of '73. ADAMS: Seventy-three? HOLT: Um-hm. ADAMS: Okay. HOLT: Go visit the high schools, um, spend half a day out there with a pack of brochures laid out on a table; sit out in the hall and talk to students. And, um, we had students out in the counties that would come and talk about career fields that they were interested in. Um, and I'll never forget on more than one occasion, um, people would come and talk to me about the, uh, radiology program, because they had always been interested in getting into radio. ADAMS: (laughs) What did you say to that? HOLT: So we had a little educating to do there. ADAMS: What'd you--what'd you tell them when they-- HOLT: Well I--I just, you know, tried to be--be very gentle and tell them that: okay this is for taking x-rays of people. We don't really- -if you want to get into radio, uh, you know, to study and be--to become an engineer you might be--be interested in our electronic technology program. But we didn't really get into broadcasting and, and that sort of thing, but that's what they were looking for. ADAMS: That's pretty good. (laughs) So, in between your spare time from, uh, what was it, admissions; financial aid; recruiting--boy, they got a good deal out of you, didn't they? HOLT: (laughs) Three years. ADAMS: They got their money's worth. Um. going into a few other, uh, questions here, we've talked about what you've seen as some of the accomplishment that Lexington Community has had. What have you--are particularly disappointed with the institution? Where do you think that they have, uh, fallen behind on their mission; where they could have gone. HOLT: Well I--I think that the big thing is funding. We have not been funded as we should have been funded, uh, through the years. I think that there are lots of areas where we probably could be actively developing programs that would be beneficial to the community, and, um, we haven't been able to do that because of--of the funding. Um, some of that is also due to, uh, space. We need more physical facilities. Um, I think we've not done as much as we probably could and should have done in, uh, in reaching out to the community more. Um, and a--for example, uh, we--we should be working more with the, uh, School for the Deaf in Danville. Uh, we had a program going with them for a period of time to bring students in here to, uh, study dental laboratory technology. But we didn't expand that into other areas, like I think we probably could have, or should have. Uh, again I think a lot of that relates to, uh, to funding. Uh, we have offered programming in other areas from time to time, we've offered courses in Danville. Um, the most successful has been at Winchester. But that was for a few years a--a kind of an off-and-on kind of thing. We are now seeing the, uh, that program beginning to, uh, develop quite nicely. We--we got a branch going over there. It looks like we're going to, uh, reach a point of having, uh, a building and--and a permanent campus there as a--a branch of this college. And I think that's great. Uh, I think we should be moving more toward the, uh, the north side of town; offering programs out there. Uh, I was very disappointed, quite frankly, when, uh, the Moloney Building and the Academic Technical Building were built here. Um, I felt that, uh, at that time, we should be getting out to the south campus and developing our own identity. Uh, and now, don't get me wrong, I didn't--I've never reached the point that I thought we ought to give this facility up, because I think there is some major advantages of us being here. Uh, and one of the big advantages is proximity to the dormitories here. Oh, it's--it's our proximity to the dormitories in our location here at University of Kentucky that has attracted students from across the state. And--and that's something I don't think that we can afford to give up. ADAMS: Well, that--that just fit in to a real good question I was going to ask you. Here in the past two years, you know, you're very familiar with what has transpired with the separation of LCC from UK. HOLT: Um-hm. ADAMS: What do you think forced that separation more than anything? HOLT: That's--I, uh, I think the direction that Dr. Todd has wanted to take the University of Kentucky. Um, I think that--that in his view this college does not fit the mission that, uh, he sees as being the mission of the--the University of Kentucky. Oh, I think that he does not see the benefit of this college as far as the University of Kentucky is concerned. And I think that we lose in that we lose that affiliation ultimately, and students don't have their name on the diplo--or doesn't have the, uh, University of Kentucky name on the diploma. I think that's gonna to have some detrimental effect, but I think that the overall growth is--is going to actually go up because of our connection with, uh, central vocational, Central Kentucky Vocational or Central Kentucky Tech, as it's called now. Uh, and I think the funding is going to be somewhat better under the, uh, system than--than under the University of Kentucky. Um, and hopefully we will see, um, new buildings. Uh, I'm not quite sure where those new buildings are going to go. It'd be very risky to put them here with, uh, the current attitude of--of the administration at the University of Kentucky. I think that underlying a lot of this, there is a, uh, a desire on the part of some people at--at the University of Kentucky to have these buildings. And that's been expressed many times through-- through the years. Uh, different elements of the University of Kentucky looking at these buildings as, uh, something they would like to access and, um, enhance their programs. So, I'll--I'm--I--I'm not sure which way it's going to go at--at this point, but I think that--that, uh, this--this location is the location we ought to hang on to, because it's important to the school. Um, but we need to be branching out in other areas as well. We need to be a multi-campus facility, uh, where there's a variety of courses. Of course we have the south campus, but I see the south campus as being, uh, limited in many ways. Uh, the building is not large enough to--to handle a large population. Uh, there're parking problems out there, uh, that sort of thing. And I think some of the students who are out there are--are there because, uh, the classes were closed here and they feel somewhat alienated, and they want to get back up here. Uh, others look at that as a--as an opportunity. It's less of a hassle as far as the commute is concerned. But again, they--they have the parking problem, uh--(coughs)--excuse me. Oh, I think we need to develop a campus though that has a better identity. Uh, out there, plus on the north side of town as well. And I think we need to look--start looking at--at other areas, uh, as satellite campuses. We have, uh, a building that is kind of on the horizon; that's on the scope, so to speak, uh, for the legislature to deal with. And, uh, I think there is a lot of interest in the--in the legislature in seeing that building funded. But of course, this last legislature, they didn't develop a budget. The one before that there were problems, and, uh, so, uh, we were depending on support from the University of Kentucky in--in that respect, and they were more interested in developing their own buildings. And--and, uh, we got kind of--shuttled to one side. I think that there is going to be a great deal more support for buildings for this--this school in the coming legislature. And I think that's very positive. ADAMS: Do you think the, uh, do you think the current administration at UK took into consideration the original foundings of LTI being separate from the Community College Systems? HOLT: No, not at all. I think the current administration looked at us as part of the Community College System, and, uh, wanted us to go with the Community College System. And I think that they generally took the position that, uh, the state legislature made a mistake when they created the Community College System; or when they separated the Community College System from the University of Kentucky and--and didn't, uh, include LCC with it. See that legislation specifically said that LCC would stay with the University of Kentucky. And I think that, uh, the current administration thought that was a mistake. ADAMS: I think--I think that it's kind of comical in that, uh, they didn't really look back at its original founding, its original intent, before-- HOLT: Well, I do too, and I think-- ADAMS:--making such a ------------(??)-- HOLT:--it's very comical that they would give up nine thousand students. ADAMS: Well. HOLT: I've got an appointment. ADAMS: Okay. Well, I do appreciate your time. HOLT: Okay. ADAMS: And I do thank you for coming in. HOLT: Maybe we can continue this on at another time if you want. ADAMS: Thank you sir. Have a nice day-- HOLT: --okay. You too. [End of interview.] Lexington Community College (LCC) professor, Daniel Holt, began work on the University of Kentucky campus as an admissions officer for Lexington Technical Institute in 1972. In this interview, Holt describes more than three decades of changes at the renamed LCC. In addition to recounting changes in leadership, curriculum and mission at the institution, Holt also recalls his own background, early career, and the construction of LCC's Cooper Road campus. The interview concludes with a brief discussion of the 2004 separation of LCC from the University of Kentucky and its inclusion in the Kentucky Community and Technical College System (KCTCS). insert here