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2007-05-09 Interview with John Herald, May 9, 2007 CC001:2008OH021 CC 35 01:04:39 History of Kentucky's Community Colleges Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries Big Sandy Community and Technical College John Herald; interviewee John Klee; interviewer 2008OH021_CC35_Herald 1:|22(1)|37(9)|54(3)|84(1)|113(9)|139(2)|168(3)|198(2)|228(6)|251(8)|275(12)|296(7)|313(5)|336(10)|369(10)|382(7)|401(11)|422(7)|444(13)|459(11)|490(3)|505(4)|533(7)|558(1)|582(13)|594(13)|607(5)|630(12)|648(3)|675(9)|700(8)|726(6)|744(7)|771(9)|787(14)|812(5)|833(6)|857(1)|872(2)|903(6)|929(9)|943(3)|980(4)|1012(6)|1038(2)|1054(2)|1071(8)|1096(1)|1126(5)|1145(11)|1166(4)|1192(4)|1210(2)|1236(2)|1258(2)|1289(5)|1309(2)|1333(11)|1365(9)|1390(3)|1415(4)|1442(1)|1477(5)|1506(2) audiotrans CommuColl interview KLEE: Yeah, I was on some meetings with him too. HERALD: I tell you what, he was-- KLEE: I thought about getting an interview with him. HERALD: I tell you now, he would be-- I think he would be a perfect one. He was here during--he was here when the college started in '64. KLEE: Larry Stanley, we're talking about. I didn't--we didn't catch the first part. Let me do this introduction. The following is an unrehearsed interview for the University of Kentucky Libraries Community College System Project. That's when--the early years of the community college, when they were a part of the University of Kentucky. The interview is being conducted by John Klee. We're at Big Sandy Community College, formerly Prestonsburg Community College. And I am with John Herald. The date is May 9th, 2007. Mr. Herald, if you'd start by giving me some of your--just talk about your personal background. HERALD: Okay. I am born and raised in Prestonsburg, in Floyd County. Went to the high school, and really the only time I left the area is when I went to the University of Kentucky after I got out of PCC, and graduate school. Only job I've ever had has been here at the college, full-time, regular job. And I went here as a student, my wife went here as a student, my two children went here as students. So it's all a family affair. KLEE: Take me back to Prestonsburg when you were growing up. What was the community like? What was fueling the economy? HERALD: This area has always been coal. And you have your ups and downs in the coal industry. My father worked some in the coal mines. He was a heavy-equipment operator. And it was the days that you didn't have a lot of wealth in the area. Most people were hourly employees, work three months, off three months, just depending on how the economy was going at the time. Most people in the area, though, it was either--coal was the big thing and maybe some social--you know, work in hospitals and government agencies, ----------(??) private industry. And really not a lot different than it is right now, because, again, our economy is still based on coal. KLEE: Was the community more isolated when you were growing up than you'd say it is now, as far as--I guess the roads have improved? HERALD: Yeah. Back then, you know, it was like what you see on Andy Griffith, Mayberry. You know, but prior to the Mountain Parkway and Bert Combs becoming governor, if you went to Lexington, it was an all-day trip. It was like going--now like you're flying to Atlanta or somewhere. And to go to Louisville, it took all day to get to Louisville. And we had no roads, and it was isolated. That had its advantages back then; this was a tight-knit community. Everybody knew everybody else. And we had the school systems in Prestonsburg, and as you grew up, you know, you made friends for a lifetime. And it was an isolated community, and the Mountain Parkway opened up quite a bit. KLEE: Now, you went to the city school? HERALD: Well, at that time, they--it was Prestonsburg High School and-- but in my earlier days, about every community had its own high school. KLEE: Right. HERALD: You had Wayland High School; you had Auxier High School. Auxier High School may have had 30 people in their high school, but every little community had their high school. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And as time's gone on, you know, those have consolidated, and that's been one big change that I've noticed over the years. Back then, the communities had their own identity, and a lot of times it centered around their basketball team. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And everybody had their basketball team, and on Friday nights, that's usually when they played basketball. The whole community was there. And you don't see that now. Where we consolidated, they don't have the pride and identity in the small communities like we used to. KLEE: Yeah. Well of course, not as many families are involved. You had, you know, more students playing and so forth. You were coming out of high school. What had you heard about a community college opening in Prestonsburg? HERALD: When I was in high school, I can remember when they started the campaign to buy the property. And they actually had a campaign in the public school system for everybody to collect pennies. KLEE: I see. HERALD: And so everybody got on their penny campaign, of taking their jars, collecting pennies and whatever. I think they had to pay something like $100,000 for the property, and I think the city had to provide the property-- KLEE: I see. HERALD: --for the college. But the grade schools, I can remember it was a great community effort to get the community college here. KLEE: Right. HERALD: They had radio-thons, they had bake sales, everything in the community to get it here. And so they finally did get enough money to purchase the land. So that was in the early '60s. We opened up in '64, and it probably took a year or so--I'd say that campaign probably started in '60 or '61. KLEE: Now, you mentioned Bert Combs. He's from here? HERALD: He's--in fact, he lives right across the street--or his home was right across the street. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And the house is still there. There is some--you know, still occupied. He was an attorney from this area and well known, of course. KLEE: Were there other community leaders or politicians that you think-- I mean, I know you weren't firsthand on that, but of course you've heard these things after the fact. HERALD: Yeah. There was a group of--probably the most prominent was a local banker, Burl Spurlock. He died several years ago. But he led the way, and he had a group of men with him, Marvin Music. And one gentleman that was on the board until recently, our board, was H.D. Fitzpatrick. We call him Buddy Fitzpatrick. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And I was trying to think of some others on that original board. But those people really spearheaded the campaign to get the--and they were all friends of Governor Combs. KLEE: I see. HERALD: But Burl Wells--and George Archer, he was a physician. They pretty well were very civic-minded, and the town--they pretty well made the town what it was. KLEE: I see. What about--were--you mentioned the bank. Were there corporations or businesses that were also pushing, or did they come in later, or both? HERALD: From what I recall, it was mostly a grass-roots effort. KLEE: I see. HERALD: We had no large companies here. KLEE: Right. HERALD: You had a few coal companies, but they were not the coal companies you see today. They were--you know, one day they're operating, and the next day they're broke. KLEE: I see. HERALD: And so it was a grass-roots--like I say, collecting pennies, bake sales. Had a radio-thon, I remember they had couple of those to raise money. So that was, again, to buy the land. KLEE: What was this property like before they built the college out here? HERALD: Well, it's just what we refer to as a bottom. It--and there was--it was owned by the Porter family. And I don't think they ever did much with it, maybe tried to farm it a little bit. And I don't think they were particularly eager in letting land go. KLEE: I see. HERALD: But it was the only--it's the only land in Prestonsburg where you have this kind of acreage that's flat. KLEE: Yeah. HERALD: And-- KLEE: So there wasn't a lot of arguments, as you remember, about where the thing was going to be. This was logical location. HERALD: Yeah. And this basically was it. It was the largest parcel of level land in the city limits within Prestonsburg. And it--and they wanted it in Prestonsburg. Now at one time, I remember hearing some discussion that Paintsville wanted to--or was eager to get the community college down there. And in looking back, some--a part of their argument was that the Mayo Technical School or Mayo Vocational School -- I forgot what it was called then -- was already there. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And to put the community college in the same community. KLEE: I see. HERALD: But I don't--that didn't go very far, from my understanding. Of course, it ended up here. But I think-- KLEE: Of course, Governor Combs was-- HERALD: Governor Combs being--and like I say, literally, there's a road right out here. He lives on the other side. KLEE: On the other side of it. (Herald coughs) So when they built their--the building--are we in the first building here? HERALD: Yes. KLEE: What's this building called now? The-- HERALD: We--the buildings were named initially after the counties we serve. And but there's no Floyd Building, since we're in Floyd County. KLEE: I see. HERALD: This building is known as the Johnson Building, after Johnson County. And this building--I was a student. I came here in the first class in '64. KLEE: Right. Now, they had not met in any temporary quarters or anything? They-- HERALD: When I came, we started here, but I think there was a lot of concern initially about whether or not the facilities were going to be ready. And I think they--they may have had some classes initially in some churches and some offices uptown. I know some of the first employees were officed uptown. KLEE: I see. HERALD: But as a student coming in '64, I remember coming into this building and taking the ACT, so it must have been ready by then. KLEE: Ready, right. HERALD: But I know the first employee in my understanding was Bob Wallace, our librarian, was the first employee of PCC. And his daughter, by the way, is assistant superintendent of Johnson County, if you ever needed information on him. He passed away several years ago. KLEE: So he was a local man too, then? HERALD: He was local. He--I think he was a county librarian or something like that. And I remember he had a--they got him an office uptown, right in the place--right in the middle of town called the-- near the Fountain Corner, which was the place to--where everybody loafed and hung out (laughs). And he started developing a library up there. KLEE: As I--I think I heard from somewhere they put this building up in a hurry? Was it some kind of sheeting on the outside? HERALD: Now, this building was identical to the one in Elizabethtown. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: Exact same floor plan. And the first building had--it was a fiberglass. And it was a multi-colored fiberglass panel, joined--it was about six inches thick, but it had about a quarter of an inch or an eight of an inch fiberglass on each side. And at night it looked beautiful. You'd turn all the lights on, and you'd think you were at a circus or a carnival. KLEE: I see, okay. HERALD: And over the years--and it was very inefficient in the heat and air conditioning. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: Over the years--in fact, I had started working here after they did this, but students over the years had started putting pencils through the wall. And it deteriorated; it was cracking. So they took those walls down and put up the precast that we have now. KLEE: You were getting out of high school. Why did you decide to come to this new community college in Prestonsburg? HERALD: Well, kind of by accident. When I got out, I was like a lot of young men in this area. I didn't know what I was going to do. And in fact, my plans kind of were maybe just go into the Army. And I was down here one day. I used to ride a little motorcycle, and I was down here one day and just for whatever reason came in just to look around. And a gentleman, Walter Frasure, stopped and started talking to me. And talked--said, "Why don't you consider coming to college here?" And I didn't think I was college material. KLEE: I see. HERALD: High school counselor told me the best thing for me would--go to the Army (laughs). And so I talked to him a little bit, and didn't think a whole lot about it. And then a couple days, it just kept sticking with me. And I came back down and talked to him again, and he said, "Well, take this ACT." I said, "I can't pass a test or anything like that." He said, "Take it anyway." So I took the test, and the more I talked with him, the more I got intrigued with coming here. And I never thought I could make it through college. I just--like a lot of us in this area, we just didn't have the confidence to do--didn't think we could do it. So I enrolled. And I remember my tuition the first semester was something like $98, and I had to borrow that to enroll. And--but when I got here, the employees were just great, the faculty and staff. And I started--had a class or two and started being a little bit successful in it. And the more I took, the more I liked. That's why I mentioned Larry Stanley. Larry Stanley was just--he was great. He taught history. And I took his class the first semester, and it just turned on a switch for me. And-- KLEE: Tell me about some other--who were your fellow students? Were they a lot of your classmates? Were they people coming from other communities? HERALD: Mostly, the first group--there was 325 in the first group. They did come from other communities, but primarily at the first year, was the Prestonsburg, Paintsville, Pikeville area. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And out of that group, we've had some that have done extremely well over the years. Each year we have an outstanding alumnus that speaks at our graduation, and I think I've nominated the last three of the four that got it. But-- KLEE: If any of those names come to mind, tell me a little bit about them, some stories. HERALD: Well, the one we had this year is--his name is Chuck May, Charles May. He left here--well, he went to school here, then he went on to Morehead, and then he went to UK and got a PhD. Then he started working for some companies out West. And I got his resume, and he has 107 patents-- KLEE: My goodness. HERALD: --that he--awarded to him. And he is now director of Nanoscience Center at University of Kentucky. He retired from his private sector, and just has done real well. KLEE: So he is in this nanotechnology? HERALD: Yes. And he has a PhD in chemistry, but he ended up kind of in the engineering side of it. One gentleman we had a couple of years ago, probably one of the better speakers we ever had, Kenny Rice. Did you watch the Kentucky Derby this weekend? KLEE: Mm-mm. HERALD: Kenny Rice is an NBC commentator. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And he is a--he was on there quite a bit interviewing some of the people. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And he came--he graduated--I guess might have been the late '70s, early '80s when he graduated from here. Even when he was a student here, he worked at the radio stations at nights and on the weekend. And he was good at being a sportscaster. But he was--he's on NBC Sports. KLEE: Right. Seen him often. HERALD: So, I mean--you could go on and on. KLEE: Yeah. Go ahead and name some more. HERALD: About every teacher in this area went here. Most of the doctors at one time did; we don't have quite as many now that went through. We have Bill Francis, who was very active at University of Kentucky. He was the president of the Alumni Association at UK a few years ago, and he is one of our alumni. You know, just about every doctor that's my age of 60 went here. KLEE: Started here? What about those--you mentioned Dr. Stanley, Larry Stanley. What about some other faculty? HERALD: The--we--I was trying to think back to the first year. And some--let's see. We had one that was------------(??) just people that I had contact with was Father Poole. He was a Catholic priest. And he came down here and taught Latin. And I didn't do too well in that. KLEE: (laughs) HERALD: He was just a very nice gentleman, and he was here because of being in the Catholic Church and was an asset--great asset to the college. We had one gentleman, Ron Lawson(??), who died several years ago. But he was in charge [of] about everything outside the classroom. One person did it all: bookstore, admissions, records, financial aid, the whole thing. I remember he was an extremely hard worker. Let's see who--I had--that first group, most of the instructors were from outside the area-- KLEE: Okay. HERALD: --whereas now we're starting to get some local people that have made it through and are, you know, instructors. If I had my picture, I could tell you quite a few of them. KLEE: Someone mentioned--I think there was maybe a man from Africa that was here? HERALD: We had--not the--well, we had a Hailu Bogale. KLEE: Okay. He must come later. HERALD: Yeah, he taught engineering, and he went on disability. He had cancer. He went on to Lexington, but he died a few years ago also. We had instructors from all over the United States. Some out of New York. We had one instructor whose wife was--become quite active in theater. Her last name was--I can't think of her last name right now. But she became--she taught part-time for us, and her husband taught full-time. She was on "Happy Days." Remember the "Happy Days" show? KLEE: Okay. Uh-huh. HERALD: And she was a regular on one of the big soap operas. KLEE: I see. HERALD: I seen her in a movie not too long ago too. Elaine--I told you my mind was leaving me. KLEE: (laughs) Well, if that name comes to you, let me know. HERALD: Yeah. It will hit me later. KLEE: What about Dr. Henry Campbell? Did the students--I mean, was he a presence on campus? HERALD: Oh, yeah. It's--you know, we were talking about he and Shires from the same mold. Henry Campbell was--he was a character, to say the least. We used to all--as a student--we had a student lounge right in the middle of this building, and he'd come in and play cards with us. Sat down and talked with us, and he always wore bright clothes. KLEE: I see. HERALD: And a lot of times they didn't coordinate. He would wear striped pants and a checkered shirt, different colors and everything in the world. And I remember when he first came here, he drove a pink Thunderbird. So here he'd come in. Anyway, one day he pulled out with his checkered pants and striped shirt, getting out of a pink Thunderbird. But now, he was one of a kind. You know, he wasn't real big in stature. And he really wasn't known--didn't take a lot of pains with his dress. And one of the--Tom Whitaker, I was just down in a meeting with Tom and was talking about when Tom came down here for an interview. And he passed Dr. Campbell in the hallway, and he thought Dr. Campbell was on the maintenance staff (laughs). KLEE: Oh. (laughs) Just by the way--his appearance? HERALD: Yeah. He was asking him where the president's office was. But the man--he had a great mind, and the people in the area loved him. And I know one time we were trying to raise money for the science building, which has his name, the Campbell Science Building. We had to come up with, I think, $80- or $90,000. And he literally got on the phone and raised that in one afternoon just by phone calls. KLEE: So his appeal to people was just his personality? HERALD: His personality. He was very brilliant, a very smart man, but he--you know, he made you--he could talk to a king as well as he could a custodian. He could--he knew no strangers. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And people just loved him, and he was approachable. KLEE: And he was a local? HERALD: Yeah. Actually, I think he was from Wheelwright. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And he went away to school. He actually got his PhD from the University of Texas. And their program is pretty stringent in higher education. And then after he left there, I think he went to a school in New Mexico. And then we got him from there. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And he was--we only had--we've had three presidents here. And he was president until about '95, '94, somewhere in there. KLEE: What was student life like here? Were there activities? Were there-- HERALD: It was--I tell you, it was a different student back then. It was--most of us where high school graduates, 18-, 19-year-olds. And still had a lot of interest in student activities and those types of things. I'd say the average age of students back then might have been 20, if it were that high. A lot of--it was almost a continuation of the high school social system. You know, you had--we had a lot--we studied, but we also had a lot of activities. We had dances; we had festivals. And I remember one thing as a student, though, being exposed to things I'd never been exposed to before when I came down here. And it was a social center for all of us. We-- KLEE: When you say exposed to things, you mean ideas? HERALD: Ideas and people, and--mostly ideas and activities. You know, I was trying to think, we had people come in to lecture, noted people. I'd never been exposed to that before. We'd have performances. We'd have, you know, plays and dramas, which we hadn't been exposed to in high school. The center--the college at one time--you know, Dr. Edwards was really supportive of the arts. We had seven music teachers here at one time. KLEE: Gee. Did you say Dr. Edwards? HERALD: I mean Dr. Campbell. KLEE: Dr. Campbell, yeah. HERALD: He really supported the music, and we had seven music instructors. We had eleven practice piano rooms. KLEE: Is that right? (laughs) HERALD: We had a band room. So-- KLEE: All that's gone by the wayside? HERALD: Yeah. But we are getting a music program now that's really-- that's come along real well. But we went through a period of time, from probably the mid-'80s up till the last two or three years, we had no music program. KLEE: So that was just one of Dr. Campbell's-- HERALD: Yeah, that was one of his passions. He just loved it. KLEE: And as an outgrowth of that, I guess there were recitals and performances. HERALD: And everybody took a music class. We had a college band; we had a jazz band; we had an orchestra. One time--well, we used to have basketball teams. We'd play a ballgame, we'd have a band at the ballgame. KLEE: To support the--(laughs) HERALD: And that was kind of unique to see that. KLEE: So as compared to what happened to the community college over the years when you got more non-traditional and so forth, a lot more activities? HERALD: Well, what happened, actually the student activity part of it decreased. As we got in older students, you had a more serious student. They didn't have time to come down and get in a chess tournament or ping pong tournament. You know, they had families to raise; they needed to get back home. So that's the change--the big change I've noticed over the years is the difference in the student. And I think we had a better-prepared student back then, because we have students now that have been--many of them have been out of school for 10 or 15 years. KLEE: Right. And maybe a smaller group of students coming? HERALD: Right. And--right, you know, we went from 325, and I think our enrollment this semester is, like, 4,800. KLEE: And the population area probably is not much larger than it was then? HERALD: Probably actually has even decreased some, I think. But our goal, we're trying to down to people that didn't get to go to school, they're retraining or want to change professions, or the housewife who's raised her family and want to go back and get an education now. KLEE: Sure. So you went here for two years and got a degree. And your next--what was your-- HERALD: I went to--usually--back in the few first few years, this was- -most of the people--I'd say 80 percent that went here that transferred went to the University of Kentucky. The links to the University of Kentucky were so strong that I remember as a student it felt good to be--you know, we said we were a part of the UK System. We got to go to football games, basketball games. We had a UK ID as a student. And we all just became orientated toward the University of Kentucky way of doing it. So I went on to the University of Kentucky, along with most of the friends that I had known in--some went--I guess Morehead was probably the next place. And then I went to the University of Kentucky and graduated in two and a half years after I left here. And then--I graduated in December of '69, I think. I came back and worked as a social worker for about three months and realized real fast that wasn't what I wanted to do. So then I went back to graduate school at Eastern Kentucky University, in higher education. And I went to graduate school two years, working on a specialist degree. Then I decided I wanted--I just--I had such fond memories of the community college, I thought that's what I'd like to do. So I started applying for jobs and going to interviews. And in fact, I interviewed with--I remember Dr. Wethington. I'd applied for Maysville, and he took time and interviewed me. Very, very nice. At that time he didn't--he interviewed, even though he didn't have the position. And I--he was very cordial to me, I always remember that. I went down and interviewed with Dr. Smith at Jefferson. And that one--that was a unique experience. He had asked me to come in for an interview. And I was very excited about going there, and I was going to meet him at his office. The morning I left Lexington, he called and said, "I have to do a radio program this afternoon. Can I just meet you at the radio station?" "Oh, that's great, that's fine." So I go down there and I find out it's WHAS, and he was doing an interview for WHAS on higher education. So what we did, I was up there just waiting for him, and he said, "Come on in here." So he takes me into the room where he is being interviewed, and he basically does my interview on WHAS. KLEE: Live on--to Louisville and ----------(??). HERALD: Live on air. And you talk about sweat rolling! (laughs) He was asking me the questions, and we were talking about my experience as a student at community colleges and things about higher education. So did that for about an hour. And I just--I couldn't believe that--and that's when--I don't know if it's AM. I guess 'HAS is AM. It's a pretty powerful station. KLEE: Oh, it goes all over the place. We get it up in Maysville (laughs). HERALD: This was 19---it was about 1970, I think, or '71 when I did this. But he was just another--just met so many--I just think the world of him. I don't know if you ever knew Dr. Smith. KLEE: No, just by reputation. HERALD: He was, you know, the black--the first black president up there. And he was just so cordial and did offer me a job. But then I also interviewed--I was going through interviews at that time and went over at Southeast Community College for an interview. And Dr. George Lester--do you remember him? He was president over there then, and so I talked with him. And then on my way back--my families live here in Prestonsburg. And I had been talking to Dr. Campbell a couple of times and his academic dean, Robert Allen, about a job. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And during that time, the lady that was student--coordinator of student affairs left. So coming back, I happened to pass Dr. Campbell's house. So I said, "Well, I'm just going to go in here and talk to him. See if there's any possibility." Because I wanted to come back here. Well, he was out back in the garden. He had a bunch of geese. His wife said, "He's out back." So I walked around back, and I had my coat and tie and everything. And he was out there feeding his geese, and they were flopping all over the place and doing everything in the world. And he was just going on and feeding them and everything else. And he interviewed me there while he was feeding his geese. KLEE: (laughs) HERALD: And so he offered me the job there, and so I've been here ever since then. KLEE: So that was before a lot of search committees, and the presidents just called you in and-- HERALD: He just called me in. He--I know after we talked up there and stepping around all the geese stuff on the ground and everything else, he just called--he called Robert Allen and said, "Well, go on and put him on the payroll." And that was it. You know, it's such a change now. You know, it's an ordeal to get employed. KLEE: Of course, you probably wouldn't have felt comfortable even approaching him had you not had that relationship with him here? HERALD: Right. I--he's the type that--from being a student and how he interacted with us as students. He was approachable, and he knew both me and my wife. You know, she had gone to school up here also. KLEE: Right. HERALD: In fact, I think she may have worked in his office one semester. But he was just so open. What you see with Henry Campbell is what you got. He was just a genuine person. KLEE: So you became you became coordinator of student affairs? HERALD: First job I had was coordinator of student personnel services. And I was in--then that position evolved into the dean of student affairs over the years. KLEE: Right. HERALD: I was called--had different titles. KLEE: Assistant director, I guess, at one time. HERALD: Yeah, all that. And then I did that for about 25 years. And then the dean of business affairs retired, and I was chairman of the search committee to--for the dean of business affairs. And we advertised and didn't get too many applicants. So I started filling in a little bit during this interim period when we didn't have anybody. KLEE: Right. HERALD: We advertised again and still couldn't get anybody to apply. I remember one guy did apply from--called me from California. And I remember the position was advertised at $27,000. The guy called me from California. He said, "Now, I'm interested, but I assume this is a typo error in the salary. That is $127,000, is it not?" I said, "No, it's $27,000." He said, "We have janitors that make more than that out here." I said, "Well, this is what the pay is." KLEE: Now, what year are you thinking about there? It had to be-- HERALD: It was in the early '90s. KLEE: Early '90s? Gee. HERALD: So I think we--you know, I think that was the minimum entry in- -for the position. You know, you're kind of negotiable, try to bring it up there from there. But we advertised as that being the minimum salary. KLEE: Right. HERALD: So with-- KLEE: He obviously didn't follow through on his application? HERALD: No, no. And we couldn't get any viable applicants really to take us seriously, and I'd been doing it. So at--the president at the time, we had a new president, Debbie Floyd. She asked me if I'd just be interested in doing it full-time. And it was--I really was excited about the work. I loved the work. We came to an agreement that I would try it for a year, and if it didn't work out, either for the college or me, I could go back to student affairs. But the first year was--worked out pretty good, so I just have been in it since then. KLEE: I wanted to go back to one topic, and that was the UK connection, the UK brand, so to speak. How is UK looked upon in this community? I mean, is--you know, some places in Kentucky bleed blue. HERALD: It's basically the same thing here. I think that's one of the reasons the college had so much support in the earlier years is that link to UK. Most of the students would follow UK's sports and activities. And we took a--like I said earlier, we took a great deal of pride in being a part of the UK System. And I remember we always--our transcripts even had University of Kentucky on our academic transcripts back then. KLEE: Okay. And when you went to the University in Lexington, you were given the same kind of status on housing and everything else? HERALD: Exactly. KLEE: ----------(??) I don't know if they do any differently now, but I remember then, you were just a junior status. And that put you ahead of everybody that had been there two years or at least a year and a half. HERALD: And our classes the first--you know, our curriculum were UK classes. KLEE: Right. HERALD: It was a little bit different as time has evolved, but, you know, if we took English here, it was the English that they'd be taking on the main campus. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And I guess you are aware of Dr. Wethington's study about how community--he did, I think, his dissertation on how well students do--community college students did once they transferred. And I think he found that initially there's a drop in the grade point average, but by the time they graduate, they are at the same level as those that originally--enrolled originally at the University of Kentucky. KLEE: After the transition. And you say it was important--community support and so forth too at that time. HERALD: Oh, yeah. You know, we--again, we were known just--all over PCC, we were the University of Kentucky at Prestonsburg. KLEE: You mentioned a little bit about while you were a student kind of--I guess colleges kind of have personalities, and one of the part of the personality of this college was that humanities, arts, performing arts, were very much stressed. As an early employee and then also as, you know, you can bring in the student too, what other--how else could you characterize the atmosphere on the campus here? HERALD: Well, back when--again, in '64 when it opened, this was a transfer institution. You went--it was not a terminal education. Most people here, their goal was to go on to the University of Kentucky or somewhere else. And over the years that has evolved that we have a lot of terminal programs, you know, two-year technical programs. I've seen that as a big change, in that we do not have--we have such a variety of students and older students that I don't know what percent actually transfer, but we're--it's nothing like the original group, the original class. The atmosphere back then was that we were more liberal arts, more into the arts and culture, and whereas now, the liberal arts--the people go to college now basically to get a job. Back then, it was to--you know, we had people major in philosophy. KLEE: (laughs) Right. HERALD: You know, what are you going to do with a degree in philosophy, you know? KLEE: It was the '60s and early '70s. HERALD: '70s. So--and you had people to graduate in four years that didn't know what they were going to do in life. KLEE: Right. HERALD: People don't have that luxury now; they go to college for a reason. KLEE: Particularly the working kinds and non-traditional people you're talking about. One of the things that attracted students from all over, I know the Eastern Kentucky colleges, was a festival you all had down here, the Mountain Dew Festival. HERALD: Oh, yeah. That's why I'd like--Larry Stanley--we're--in fact, we're--they're going to have a little reunion this summer on the Mountain Dew Festival. I was on the student government when that started, and it was an idea of Larry Stanley. It was his idea. The first festival was called The Little Brown Jug Invitational Tournament. KLEE: (laughs) HERALD: And it basically was a track meet and a couple--and a little bit of basketball thrown in. And I remember the track meet, we had people up there running track and competing that had never seen a track before. KLEE: (laughs) HERALD: And we started out, we had just a few schools in there. And it kind of--it was just a great amount of fun, and over the years it evolved into the Mountain Dew Festival. The first year or two we might have had two or three schools to join us in it. KLEE: Now, was the name change--was there sponsorship or something? HERALD: There was no sponsorship. It was all local. KLEE: You all--somebody just picked the name because of the location here, Mountain Dew? HERALD: Yeah. And it was all--we did it all. The faculty, every employee was involved in the sponsorship--I mean, doing the activity. So we had very little cost. Our only costs where trophies, and we'd have to rent the gym sometimes, and that was about it. KLEE: Well, tell me about it. What--when was it held at its height? HERALD: It was held in the spring of the year, usually in April. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And it evolved over the years through--one year we had 21 different schools here, and we had--the centerpiece of it probably was the basketball tournament. And we had it at the local high school. And--but we had in the festival probably--I'd say probably 25 or 30 different activities. We had everything from Rook to ping pong, table tennis, archery. We had a talent show. But now, one year--the most I can remember, we had over 2,000 students here one year. They came as- -we had from Paducah, Hopkinsville. Hopkinsville used to send a large group here. And Hopkinsville--we'd have an overall winner. And they won it several years. And I think the gentleman from Hopkinsville is still teaching there. They brought the students. He just did a great job with them. He was a P.E. teacher at Hopkinsville. So that was the peak. And it-- KLEE: With 21 schools, you were getting some schools out of state? HERALD: We got--well, at that time Pikeville College came. We invited Pikeville College. Not--you know, they couldn't bring any intercollegiate athletes. KLEE: Right. HERALD: Alice Lloyd came. We got some schools out of Williamson. We had one out of Portsmouth. We had one out of--another one out of Ohio. And then we had--private schools like St. Catharine's used to come all the time. Lindsey Wilson would come. And we were talking the other day that we used to have all kinds of documentation on all this stuff, and we can't find it now. KLEE: Oh, that's a shame. The height then was probably what? You think '75, '76, '77 somewhere in there? HERALD: I'd say in the late '70s were when it--and really what happened, the school's budget became awful--you know, they started getting tighter. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And it was difficult for those other schools to bring that many students here. And then one thing that kind of hurt us a little bit was Title IX, when they had--when the local schools had to do--started having women's athletics. KLEE: Right. HERALD: We could not get facilities, because they were--during spring-- KLEE: Oh, they were so filled up? HERALD: Filled up with their activities. But the biggest reason I think it kind of went on the decrease was the cost of bringing that many students across the state, and it was a matter of priority. And we went through some real lean years then. KLEE: Where did the kids stay? HERALD: Well, that's--we would have--every hotel room in the city would be booked. We had some to camp, and that--most of them liked to camp. They camped right here on the grounds. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And they'd have a big time out there. KLEE: (laughs) I bet they would. HERALD: We never did have any problem, but, you know, they would bring their--college kids being college kids, they would bring their beer and whatever and just have a great time. But never a problem. KLEE: Yeah. Had a beauty pageant with it too, I think, which everybody sent their own people? HERALD: We've got a series of--and I'll tell you what we are doing right now. I'll send you all this. We've got a group that is doing this reunion, and they're photocopying pictures and yearbooks and everything with the Mountain Dew. Yeah, we had a beauty pageant and that was part of the talent show. They would introduce that as part of the talent. I was going to show you some---this is just one yearbook I have, but we had every ac---had rifle. KLEE: And you had faculty and staff judging, I guess? HERALD: Judged it and most--and did it all. Most of it was--we had tennis. Tennis was really big. Had volleyball, horseshoes, bowling. Here is a picture of one of the queens. I don't know where she was from--from Lexington Technical Institute in 1977. KLEE: Yeah. I think one of the Maysville girls won one year. I'm thinking maybe '73 or '74? HERALD: Well, here's female--we had female and male table tennis. But you can see the crowd there that was-- KLEE: Oh, man! Yeah. (laughs) HERALD: --just for female table tennis. KLEE: Yeah, there's a lot watching, rooting them on. HERALD: They're going to take--one of the guys that's working with this Mountain Dew reunion they're talking about is going to take the yearbooks and put them on a DVD, and I'll see that you get a copy of that. KLEE: I'd appreciate it. Yeah, it would be nice to go in these in these files. HERALD: And they are going to copy some articles out of the newspaper-- out of the student newspaper. KLEE: Did you get a lot of support from the community then? HERALD: Yeah, we-- KLEE: Of course, they liked seeing the hotels full. HERALD: Restaurants were full; the hotels were full. KLEE: Right. HERALD: Never did--we had a couple of people sometimes that thought we were getting too wild down here, but it always had a great deal of support. And like I say, the town was really busy. It's like these fall festivals you see now with all the people that were there. KLEE: You don't remember what year--the last year of it, do you? HERALD: I think we're--well, we were trying to talk--we were thinking about that the other day. I think it was '86 was the last one. KLEE: It ran longer than I thought it did. HERALD: We tried it one time--it went--a few years there, we didn't have anything. We tried to bring it back one time, and just did not get the interest in it. KLEE: Right. HERALD: But if you run across people across the state, if they have been associated with a community college, they know the Mountain Dew. KLEE: And it was a big experience. I mean, for the kids that went from Maysville, I think that was one of the high points of their college careers. HERALD: The lady that was on the--she might have been on the--she was on the KCTCS Board of Directors from Ashland. What was her name? Do you remember? She was up here. She always talks about her opportunity up here. I forgot her name too. She is no longer on the board. I think she might have been chairman of the board. KLEE: There was a Johnson. I don't know if that was who--Martha Johnson? HERALD: Martha! I think that's it. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: She's from the Ashland area, if that's the one. KLEE: Might be. Tell me--you came here in--now, I wrote that year down. HERALD: I came in '71. KLEE: '71. Tell me about the growth of the college. When was the next building built? HERALD: When I came in '71--this was the original building in '64, the Johnson Building. The next buildings, there were two of them that came, and they opened up in '70, the year before I came. It was the Pike Technology Building and the student center. They opened at the same time. And as I--my understanding is that the Pike Technology Building was to be another floor. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And Dr. Campbell decided to take some of that money and try to build a student center. So they took part of that money and built the student center. KLEE: Right. HERALD: The Pike Technology Building at the time, it had--we had a TV studio over there. We had a radio studio. We actually had a broadcast radio. And we had a home economics room, which we finally dropped that. Well, we dropped most programs. Had a nursing lab. It has a small theater--auditorium. And then the student center opened the same year. We called it the Martin Student Center, named after Martin County. We used that building--when we built the new student center, they removed that building, demolished that building. KLEE: Now, was that the one that succumbed to flood waters or-- HERALD: It had been flooded once, and it was a low-lying building. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: I think the primary reason that it was demolished was the fact that the site where it sat was a prime site for the new building. The building was in pretty decent shape. So it was the Martin Student Center. Used to have dances over there. It had a food service operation. We had--the plan was, when they built the building, to build a swimming pool out to the side. So it had two locker rooms there. But we never did get the pool. But a lot of people have a lot of fond memories about the student center. KLEE: Because that was the hub of activity, I guess. HERALD: Yeah, that's where everybody--and then back then, in the earlier days particularly, everybody knew everybody, you know. KLEE: So what was the--what has been--after that, I guess, there came-- HERALD: Okay. After that, came the Campbell Science Building. Then following that came the library, the LRC Building. And then we got--we had--we basically had about three buildings come at the same time, the new student center, the postsecondary education center that we occupy jointly with Morehead, and then the East Ken--- [End of side 1, tape 1] [Begin side 2, tape 1] KLEE: This is side two of a tape by John Klee with John Herald at Big Sandy Community College on May 9th, 2007. You were talking about the building of the buildings, and you--the LRC, and that--you were to the science center. Now, are these recently-- HERALD: The science center, that--those buildings opened up, I think, three years ago. KLEE: Okay. HERALD: And there was a group of citizens lead by John Rosenberg, a local attorney, and others who wanted to promote science and mathematics in Eastern Kentucky. That's an area we're weak in. So they started out and had a group, and they had small exhibits in places uptown, just wherever they could find. So they finally got the governor's ear when Paul Patton was governor about funding a science center. And I think they got the funding for it, but they didn't have a place to put it. So they approached us and approached KCTCS, so the building--it's a KCTCS property, but we manage--we operate--we maintain the building, but they do the programming. KLEE: Oh, okay. HERALD: And they bring in about 25,000 grade school and high school students a year to the science center. KLEE: And have exhibits there? Lectures? HERALD: They have exhibits. They have a planetarium. They have a projection system. It's one of a few in the United States. It's over, I think, a million and a half dollars for it. It's fabulous. You sit in there, and it's got a dome. KLEE: Sure. HERALD: One of these times if you have time, we'll have to take-- KLEE: Yeah, I'd like to do that. HERALD: It's just fabulous. KLEE: I didn't realize that--I--you know, I've seen the building and the outside, but I didn't realize it just wasn't another classroom building or something. HERALD: No. And then the postsecondary is-- it's in conjunction with Morehead. And at one time--it had the name of Northeast Regional, and I think at one time there was even consideration of that building being up near the Ashland or Maysville area, but it ended up here. KLEE: I see. How that ended up here, I was going to ask you that. When you were here in the '70s and '80s, were there--of course, Bert Combs had left the governorship. Were there other political figures that were important to the college, as far as either in the legislature or locally here, that, you know, would--these buildings and budgets needed the money-- HERALD: I know there was one state representative that was very supportive, Bud--or his name was Reynolds. His son was a student here. His son's name was Bud. I'm trying to think what his--but it was Reynolds. KLEE: I'm sure we can find that. HERALD: He was very supportive of the college and one of the earlier politicians. And I was trying to think of any more. Now recently we've gotten quite a bit of support from the representatives and senators and so forth. KLEE: You mentioned some of the people on the early boards. Are there some community leaders, again, that sometimes, you know, one group moves--kind of goes the--gets less active. Were there some people over the years or families that were particularly important? I know you all have fundraisers now. HERALD: Yeah. KLEE: Are there families or, you know, coal companies or anything that you all go to? HERALD: I think one family, although we don't get a tremendous amount of support, is the Spurlock family. His--you know, we had Burl Wells, who was on the original group of men to get the college here, and then his son, Burl Wells Spurlock, served on the board quite a few years. And he's been very supportive of the college. Seems like--really, over the years, one thing that I've noticed too is that back then you had a real strong link and identity to the community. Don't think we have as strong a link now. Well, we don't, because we're regional. KLEE: Right. HERALD: But then, it being Prestonsburg, people took a lot of pride in it, right in the town. Kind of back like the days of the small high schools. KLEE: Yeah. HERALD: Then as we've grown over the years and we've taken--and expanded our operations, it's changed a little bit. KLEE: Speaking of that, address the impact that you think the college has had on the community. HERALD: Oh, it's been tremendous. It's hard to find someone or a household who has not had a direct impact from the college. Either they went to college or somebody in their family went. It was amazing at one time how many years ago--how many first-generation people went to school here. First ones-- KLEE: First one in their family. HERALD: --ever to go to college. Now what we're finding, we're getting the--we had their children. Now we're getting their grandchildren are here. You cannot go to a doctor's office, go to a classroom, without finding somebody that that this college has not touched. You won't. It's-- KLEE: I guess the allied health things--the nursing program. when it came, was a big impact? HERALD: It was--there was a shortage of nursing in this area like there was everywhere. We have provided probably--at one time we provided about all the nursing for the hospital, because, you know, a nurse is not going to come to this area from outside the area. And we became the source for the nurses in this area. I'd say probably at one time we were doing 90 percent of the nurses for the hospital. And at one time the hospitals really supported the nursing programs, because that was--we were their bread and butter. They funded some faculty positions, and they continue to give us a lot of support. KLEE: Do you think that the educational level of the whole community kind of has risen because of the presence of the college? Do you have a lot of--have you educated a lot of students and then they've gone on and left? Are both those things true? HERALD: I think both are true. The educational level and expectation of the community has certainly risen. But you look around, you see some of the cream of the crop, though, have left because opportunities are not here. KLEE: Right. HERALD: Was talking about this one gentleman, Charles May, that's going to speak Saturday, you know. For a PhD in chemistry, you know, there's not a whole lot of op---he could of course find a job, but not the opportunities are going to be there. KLEE: Right. Wouldn't have made the contribution that he was able to make. HERALD: Right. You know, in the education world, the teachers--most of the teachers went here. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And earlier--out of the first class we had quite a few doctors and physicians. And not quite as many--I don't think as many now come as they did. Well, one thing, the other schools have become so competitive. KLEE: Right. Coming in here and recruiting, I guess? HERALD: Recruiting. Whereas we used to get the top five or six from every high school, you know, it's a competitive thing. And these students, if Morehead offers them $5,000, all we can offer them is $1,000, even though it's going to cost them more money to go there. KLEE: Plus they get to get away from home. HERALD: That was a big--(laughs) KLEE: Yeah. 1997, of course, is when--I think it was when the split came or the new change. How did people here inside the building and then in the community--was it much of a controversy? Or-- HERALD: It was--it wasn't as smooth as it appeared on the surface. The people at Mayo, really, I don't think supported it. I don't think hardly any of the vocational school people did throughout the state. And really people here, if they told you the truth, probably didn't support it either. But it was-- KLEE: So you're talking about--part of the situation was that there was going to be a consolidation of the technical colleges-- HERALD: Right. KLEE: --and the community colleges? HERALD: And each thought they were going to lose their own identity. KLEE: Right. It was going to be a takeover on one side or the other? HERALD: And I think it was perceived by the Mayo folks that we were taking over, and--because a lot of the changes they--is that they had to change their operation to the college mode. And we didn't change a whole lot, and I think from that they derived that maybe we had-- KLEE: When you talk about change your operation, explain that a little bit. They had to change their-- HERALD: Okay, like in their technical--like carpentry, they would take students out, take them out to a site or do carpentry work all day, whereas now they may get them for a half a day. They've got to go take their English class or their history class, and then they go get to do their carpentry. KLEE: They had to convert those to, like, credit hours ----------(??) contact-- HERALD: And everything had to--right. They didn't get as much time. The trades people didn't get as much time with them to teach them the trade as they did in the past. That's the biggest complaint. The biggest, I guess, criticism I've heard is that they don't have as much time to work with them. You know, they're producing a better, well- rounded, educated student. KLEE: Because of the general ed. HERALD: Because of general ed. But like a lot of this, they don't-- they're not interested in English and literature. They're interested in welding, and used to, that's all they would have to take. KLEE: What about the UK part of it? Was that something a lot of people hated to see go? HERALD: In fact, we had a couple of our board members were very strongly opposed to the separation. One was Barkley Sturgill. And his brother was--I don't know if you heard the story [of] the alumni building in Lexington, he donated money for that, Bill Sturgill, very wealthy coal operator. Barkley and a few others were very much opposed to breaking ties with the University of Kentucky and were very much opposed to what was going on. And really, there was a lot of people that wanted to maintain that link to UK, because that gave us a great deal of credibility. I think that is why the community college system was successful. But you build a new building, and it [had] instant credibility. KLEE: Because it had that UK label. HERALD: UK. And with this new system, people didn't know what we were getting into. And it has come along--it's worked out a lot better than anybody ever imagined, I think. KLEE: Ten years? HERALD: Yeah. It's just a--but we're dealing with--we have a different philosophy, dealing with different students, different way of operation. KLEE: Is there something I--a question I missed asking you? You've had a long career here. You started with the first class, and you've kind of been a fixture. HERALD: Yeah. I was here when they first opened the doors and gone--I was gone three years, and I came back and I've been here since then, been here since '71. KLEE: You mentioned the three--you mentioned two of the three presidents. Dr. Campbell was here from '64 to the mid '90s. HERALD: Yeah. KLEE: And then Deborah Floyd was here briefly, I guess, or relative briefly. And now you have-- HERALD: George Edwards. KLEE: George Edwards. HERALD: We had--during the second president, I don't know how much you know about the Debbie Floyd-- KLEE: I knew there was some controversy. HERALD: We had--that was a terrible, terrible time for the college. The college was divided; the employees were divided. The college was really--totally tore apart. We were doing everything except our mission. KLEE: I see. HERALD: So it was a very difficult time, very difficult time for me personally. But we survived that. KLEE: Because you were in administration (laughs). HERALD: We survived that. And we went a year with some acting--we had some--an interim president. He went up to Gateway. He was president of E-town for a while. I forgot--George--let's see, Stebbins. KLEE: Chuck--Charles Stebbins. HERALD: He came for about a year, kind of stabilized the institution. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And then we were very fortunate to get--Dr. Edwards was the right person for us at the time. I mean, we were divided; people were afraid to speak to each other' we had no common goal. And he really-- he was the personality to bring us back together. KLEE: That's good. That's behind you now? HERALD: Oh, yeah. KLEE: I do know one area I wanted to address just a little bit. You were here in an administrative role from '71, and of course, it was part of the University of Kentucky System until the mid '90s. Tell me about working as a system. Who--for example, who are some of the people you worked with in Lexington? Did you have to travel very often? HERALD: Yeah, we'd go to our meetings in Lexington at Breckinridge Hall. Used to be--back in the early days of UK, I think it was a men's dormitory and they converted it to the central office. Back then Dr. Wethington was--you know, he became--he was--I forgot what his title was then, if he was president, director, or whatever of the community college system. Prior to that, we had--the first one-- KLEE: Stanley Wall, probably. HERALD: Stanley Wall. And got to work just a little bit with him. KLEE: Right. HERALD: People I worked with, though, in the area of student affairs was Dan-- KLEE: Dan Tudor. HERALD: Dan Tudor. And then Dan was real easy to work with. See, back then, all of our operations went through the University of Kentucky. If a student applied for financial aid, they handled it down there. Scholarships were handled down there. KLEE: Gee. HERALD: So we were just kind of a pass-through to get there. And then when I moved over to business affairs, Jack Jordan was there. Keith-- some of these people are still around. Keith Stephens, he went over to KCTCS, and Wendell Followell is over at KCTSC. Jay Hauselman, he worked with admissions and financial aid, and I worked with him quite a bit-- KLEE: I see. HERALD: --during that time. KLEE: When was--what were the advantages, disadvantages, of these kind of things? HERALD: The big advantage was, again, the association with the University of Kentucky. I mean, they had the resources to really--to do the processing, financial aid, do our--did all of our accounting and everything else. KLEE: Right. HERALD: One of the disadvantages was getting their attention when you had problems. KLEE: I see. HERALD: Particularly in the way of facilities and things like that. If we--they had one person that was in charge of all the facilities. You know, you really couldn't get their attention unless it was an emergency. KLEE: I see. So I mean, you're talking about if you had a wall that was collapsing or something, there was one person for all the community colleges? HERALD: Right. And that's about what it took to get their attention at that time, was for a wall to collapse or a roof to fall in. They'd try-- KLEE: And you didn't have the autonomy to do the thing yourself either? HERALD: No, no. Everything had to go through them. KLEE: Right. HERALD: That's been one big change for KCTCS is that you can do a lot more locally, and there's great support in areas outside the classroom. I know I work with facilities here, and it's a different world under KCTCS than it was UK. They--KCTCS has put a lot of emphasis on the physical structures. KLEE: Making the things-- HERALD: You've probably seen that at Maysville, you know, some things that occurred there. KLEE: Sure. Oh, yeah. We've had--we had mold and different kinds of problems that had to be addressed. How that would have been addressed in the old days, I don't know. HERALD: Yeah. KLEE: What about the marriage with the technical college? You've kind of got responsibility there. I mean, it's just one thing now. HERALD: Yeah. It was pretty rough at the beginning. Again, I think the technical people thought we were taking over. Our liberal arts people thought the program would be watered down. KLEE: Right. HERALD: You'd go to a faculty meeting or to a meeting, you'd have technical people sit on one side and liberal arts on the other side. But we finally have meshed. I know that people are--it took about a year or two for attitudes to change. KLEE: Right. HERALD: And particularly some of the--and some of the people who felt the strongest were like me, some of the oldest. And they have retired or moved on, so the younger people coming in, it's--you know, it's-- KLEE: It's just the way it is. HERALD: In probably another--I'd say another five years, it's even going to be stronger. KLEE: Right. People won't know anything--have known anything else. HERALD: And each year I hear less. I know for a couple of years there, I had the problem -- and still do -- of calling it PCC. KLEE: Right, right. HERALD: And then people from Mayo, they refer to it as Mayo. KLEE: Mayo, right. HERALD: But now we've--you don't hear that nearly as often as you used to. It's now Big Sandy. KLEE: Well, I appreciate it, appreciate you talking to me. HERALD: Well, I enjoyed talking to you. As I get some more on this Mountain Dew, I'll send it to you. KLEE: Yeah. Send it to me. I appreciate it. HERALD: Yeah, because that was the highlight--if anybody looks at the history of UK and the community college system-- KLEE: Yeah, it will stand out as a unique kind of activity. HERALD: And so many people can identify with it. KLEE: Sure. [End of interview.] Oral history with John Herald, business affairs officer at Big Sandy Community and Technical College. Interview highlights include history of Prestonsburg, Kentucky and early fundraising efforts to buy land for community college. Herald discusses the expansion of buildings on campus as well as students activities and organizations. Concludes with relationship of the college to the community as well as its relationship to the University of Kentucky and the transition to KCTCS. insert here