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1992-08-05 Interview with Henry S. Hankla, August 5, 1992 1992OH306 FF 296 2:44:13 FF009 Kentucky Family Farm Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries Hankla, Henry S. (Henry Scott), 1903- Family farms--Kentucky. Farmers--Kentucky. Agriculture--Kentucky. Apples. Orchards. Produce trade. Eggs--Production. Agricultural chemicals--Application. Farm buildings. Tobacco industry. Hay. Beef industry. Sorghum. Sorghum syrup. Aberdeen-Angus cattle. Nutrition. Family reunions. Sidesaddle riding. Agricultural machinery. Silage additives industry. Henry S. Hankla; interviewee Steve Fricker; interviewer Heritage Farm Project 1992OH305_FF295_Hankla 1:|15(9)|37(12)|53(6)|77(11)|103(12)|145(2)|168(12)|189(11)|207(2)|230(14)|247(10)|279(9)|302(6)|310(6)|325(8)|341(2)|372(4)|388(13)|414(2)|442(7)|470(12)|490(2)|511(5)|519(6)|535(9)|568(2)|585(3)|600(7)|613(8)|625(4)|640(11)|672(1)|686(4)|705(6)|716(10)|729(3)|747(6)|771(2)|789(4)|809(7)|839(7)|862(8)|880(1)|902(9)|941(10)|955(5)|986(11)|1002(13)|1021(3)|1043(2)|1064(11)|1076(5)|1091(1)|1099(14)|1112(5)|1125(9)|1140(5)|1149(10)|1160(5)|1168(13)|1178(8)|1195(9)|1212(6)|1248(1)|1272(9)|1294(9)|1318(6)|1343(2)|1379(2)|1403(5)|1429(1)|1461(11)|1499(4)|1522(5)|1555(8)|1573(2)|1586(12)|1601(2)|1614(5)|1624(8)|1639(2)|1648(13)|1667(13)|1677(9)|1699(2)|1715(6)|1726(7)|1746(9)|1774(8)|1795(1)|1821(3)|1844(8)|1882(3)|1910(2)|1941(2)|1990(2)|2003(3)|2031(2)|2056(2)|2070(5)|2100(12)|2136(8)|2157(6)|2181(10)|2213(3)|2237(13)|2249(7)|2271(1)|2292(8)|2324(9)|2348(11)|2383(7)|2398(5)|2418(5)|2427(2)|2435(11)|2444(14)|2460(2)|2467(9)|2480(1)|2496(7)|2512(3)|2521(9)|2531(2)|2560(13)|2576(2)|2601(3) audiotrans FamFarmKy interview FRICKER: This is Steve Fricker. It is August 5, 1992, approximately 9:15 a.m. Eastern time. I am meeting with Mr. Henry Hankla in the-- what room do you call this? What--what do you call this room? How do you refer to it? HANKLA: Dining room. FRICKER: Dining room. So this is the dining room of his home at 504 Maple Avenue in Danville, Kentucky. This is for the Oral History of Kentucky Farm Family's Project. And this is Henry Hankla, interview two, tape one. One of the things I'd like to do, Mr. Hankla, is go over some follow-up questions I had as a result of the interview that we did yesterday. And we talked about a number of things, and I wanted to go back over that and ask a few questions that came up after I listened to the tapes. We talked about an apple orchard that you-all had. And you mentioned something about an Early Harvest? Tell me a little bit about the early harvest. What was that like? HANKLA: It's an apple that matures early. It's--it's green, stays green all the time. And--well, when it ripens, it gets a little yellow. And it has a very good flavor. Juicy. Delicious apple to eat. Wonderful. FRICKER: When would you normally harvest those? HANKLA: They're--I don't remember the--the date, but it's early. It's-- they mature earlier than most apples. FRICKER: Umhmm. What time of year would that be? Would that be in the fall or-- HANKLA: No, in the spring. FRICKER: In the spring? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: How many orchards--how many trees did you have in the orchard? HANKLA: I don't remember. It's been quite awhile. But--about four was all that was left in good shape as far back as I can remember. But there was originally more than that. I don't know how many. FRICKER: Was the orchard there when your father bought the farm, or did he plant the trees himself? HANKLA: He probably planted them. FRICKER: Umhmm. Okay. One of the other things we talked about--we talked about your--your mother making butter and selling butter. How much butter would she normally make in the-- HANKLA: Well, that might be a guess. She would sell it, I expect, once a week. And she would have--I--I don't know. She--she molded it and it was in a round mold, and there was about a pound, I think. Looks like there'd be more than a pound. But I believe there's about--I'm not sure how much. FRICKER: Okay. And she would sell that locally? HANKLA: She sold it to the store in Perryville. FRICKER: Would she just sell to one store or would she sell to several? HANKLA: Would be to one store. FRICKER: Do you remember the name of it? HANKLA: Pal, Harmon and Mays; three people that owned it. It was a general store. They sold shoes and work clothes and groceries and just about everything. FRICKER: Umhmm. Was this the store that you-all normally traded with? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: Was--was there--was it that one particular store that you--you traded with most of the time, or were there other stores you traded with as well? HANKLA: There were two, three other stores, grocery stores. FRICKER: Would you trade with those others as well? HANKLA: Well, not much. Usually traded at that particular store. They had just about everything you needed. FRICKER: What sort of things would you normally buy from the store? HANKLA: We didn't buy--we didn't buy--but, of course, our clothes. And my brother--my mother was a good seamstress. She could make our shirts, and when we were kids, she'd make us pants. And she was--she was an extra-good seamstress. FRICKER: Umhmm. Did your sisters sew as well? HANKLA: One did. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: One sister could do a good job sewing and the other one couldn't sew a button on. (laughs) She said. FRICKER: She said, huh? (laughs) Which sister was the one that sewed? HANKLA: Nancy. FRICKER: Nancy? HANKLA: My older sister. FRICKER: Older sister? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Is that the one that lives in Atlanta or-- HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: You were telling about--telling me about yesterday. So your-- your mother would sew clothes. When we talked yesterday, you mentioned that you bought a bicycle through--through mail order one time. What were some of the other things that you would order through--through the mail order catalog? HANKLA: Well,--golly, I don't remember. Now sometimes--maybe some clothes of certain kind. Not much of anything. We didn't order much. FRICKER: How about farm implements? Where would you buy your farm implements at? HANKLA: We'd buy from the hardware store. FRICKER: Hardware store? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: The same one that we talked about? HANKLA: In Perryville or Danville. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: The--I know we talked about selling butter and selling meat to neighbors and to the store. Did you-all sell any other produce besides butter and meat? HANKLA: Eggs. FRICKER: Eggs? HANKLA: I don't believe we had any other produce to sell. FRICKER: Where would you sell the eggs at? HANKLA: Usually to the grocery store, where we traded. Then we had a poultry house in--in Perryville that bought eggs and cream and stuff like that you had to sell. FRICKER: Did you sell your cream? HANKLA: We sold cream for awhile. FRICKER: What was the--the Depression like in this area? What--what kind of--what was it like during that time? HANKLA: I guess it was pretty hard for some people, but it didn't bother us too much. We were raising nearly everything we needed to eat and didn't do much traveling. Didn't bother us much. FRICKER: Umhmm. What about your neighbors? HANKLA: I don't know of any of them that had much trouble. FRICKER: Do you remember any folks in the area who had trouble getting food or might-- HANKLA: No. I--I didn't. FRICKER: We talked about--yesterday about--when we talked about hog killing, that sometimes you would give meat to--to neighbors and--and other folks. What about other kinds of food? Did you--did you give any other foods away? HANKLA: I don't think so. Any other food we had was for our own consumption. And I don't think we gave anything else away. FRICKER: As far as the meat is concerned, what kind of--of--the meat that you would give away, who would you tend to give that meat to? HANKLA: We sold more than we gave away. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: I don't know. We didn't give much away to people. Poor people or anything like that, that needed it. We didn't see so much of that around. Everybody seemed to be pretty--in pretty good shape, people that we had to deal with. FRICKER: Umhmm. The other thing we talked about were--were the tenants that you had on the farm. I don't remember. Were those tenants, were they single, or were they--were they married and had a family? HANKLA: They were married. FRICKER: Did they have families that lived on the farm as well? HANKLA: Well, sometimes they did. One or two children. FRICKER: Would the family--would--would the tenant families, would they work on the farm as well? HANKLA: Not--no. Not--no, unless it was in a pinch of some kind where we needed extra help. Sometimes a wife would help. FRICKER: How about--tell me about the meals that your family would have. What was the biggest meal of the day? HANKLA: Noon. FRICKER: Noon? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: What would--what would the meal be like? HANKLA: We usually had vegetables and some kind of meat, and biscuits. My mother made the best biscuits of anybody. Just had a top and bottom, not a whole lot of filler, you know; just a good crust. It was delicious. And we had a--we had bees and always had honey. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: And we usually made sorghum molasses in the fall. Of course we had our own meat, pork, and occasionally we would kill a beef in the fall. So we were pretty well fixed. We was never hungry. FRICKER: You said you would kill a beef sometimes in the fall. Would you kill that yourself? HANKLA: We'd have it--have some--somebody that was knowledgeable about butchering, cutting it up and so forth. FRICKER: Umhmm. How would you store the meat? HANKLA: Usually we had a big icebox. And then we'd take it to a refrigeration place in Perryville or Danville. FRICKER: Umhmm. How old were you when you first started using the refrigeration place in Perryville or Danville? HANKLA: How what? FRICKER: How--how old were you when you first started using the refrigeration, using the refrigeration place? HANKLA: Oh, golly, I don't know. We had this big ice box ever since I can remember. FRICKER: Umhmm. Was the refrigeration place available when you were in high school? HANKLA: I think so. FRICKER: Think so? HANKLA: I'm not sure. FRICKER: Okay. The other thing you mentioned was you made sorghum molasses. Tell me about that. What was that like? HANKLA: (laughs) That was a terrible job. We would--are you familiar with cane that you make it out of? You know what kind of stalk it is? FRICKER: Describe it to me. I'm not-- HANKLA: Well, it's something like corn. The stalk is not near as large as the cornstalk. You have to strip the blades off all the leaves. We did that while the stalk was standing. We had a little stick, paddle, thin paddle about two, three feet long. And you just run it down the stalk and strip it off. Stripped the blades. And then you cut it. You cut it down near the ground with a--a--we had--well, what was a hemp knife. What was called a hemp knife. It's a little blade with a long handle and short blade. FRICKER: About-- HANKLA: And just cut it off down at the ground. FRICKER: --about that long? About-- HANKLA: The handle? About, maybe, three feet. FRICKER: About three feet long? HANKLA: Umhmm. And you cut it off down at the ground and--and just leave it lying on the ground or set it up in a shock or whatever. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And then you cut the--the seed off, the top seed cluster, and take it to the mill and poke it between some rollers. And that was usually powered by horse on a--with a--well, what do you call it, winch or long pole, anyway, horse hitched to it, and you went around in a circle and turned these rollers. And you poked the stalks in and between those rollers, and it squeezed the juice out. It would run down in a tub or a barrel, whatever you had to catch it in. And the ground stalk went on through. And then you take the juice through your evaporator, we called it. And put it in there. It had partitions in it. You cooked it. It just evaporates all the moisture and leaves the sugar. And when it gets to the right thickness, well, you--of course when it's hot, it's thinner. That's one thing about making sorghum molasses and you know when it's ready to take off. FRICKER: Umhmm. How do you tell? HANKLA: Well, you--you take a sample out and put it in a spoon or have it someplace, and let it cool. So then you can tell how the--how thick it is, whether it's the right consistency. FRICKER: Umhmm. The--the mill, the sorghum mill. Was that something that you-all owned or did someone come in and-- HANKLA: No. We didn't own it. It belonged to--there was a man in Perryville, an old black man. We called him Mingo, Uncle Mingo. Mingo Peters was his name. And he would bring--it was--his mill was on a wagon. Just the--and he just--that's the way he transported it, just sitting on that wagon without a wagon bed or anything. And you had to go--you had to go get him. Bring his--haul all his stuff there. And he had a little tent and spent the night. And we fixed his lunch and breakfast and everything. It was a lot of fun. FRICKER: Would he do--would he do the--the--make the molasses, or would you-all? HANKLA: Yes, he did the cooking. Yeah. FRICKER: And how many people did it take to--to do that? HANKLA: Well, of course, he--he did that. And you'd have--about two people could do it all right. Keep the cane cut and stripped and hauled to the--hauled up to the mill. FRICKER: How much would you pay him to do that? HANKLA: I don't remember. FRICKER: Would he get a--would he get payment or would he get-- HANKLA: I think we paid him. FRICKER: --or a cut of the molasses. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: And you could buy those gallon buckets with--you know, just gallon bucket with a tight-fitting lid. We'd put it in that. FRICKER: How much molasses or sorghum would you normally put up in a typical year? HANKLA: Well, that'd be a lot of guess work. I don't know. We made quite a bit and sold it, and gave it away. FRICKER: Where would you tend to sell the molasses? HANKLA: Anybody that would want to buy. FRICKER: Was that something that a lot of folks did in this area? HANKLA: No. No, not everybody. There's one man that--in the community. Mr. Van Arsdale could really make good molasses. And he sold it. Made it himself. He'd make it for you. You'd take your cane over there and he'd grind it and make it. Or he'd sell you his. But he did more of his own work than he did custom work. FRICKER: Did--did you-all use him very often or? HANKLA: No, not very often. We--if we did, we just went and bought his. We didn't make any. FRICKER: How much cane would--would you-all grow? HANKLA: Oh, about, maybe an acre and a half. We fed it to the livestock, too. You stripped the blades, and then we have a box of-- and cut, that we could cut it up in short lengths. FRICKER: To about six inches? HANKLA: Yeah, maybe, or shorter. And we'd cut it up and feed it to the stock. FRICKER: The--the most--so the molasses would be put up in--in the one gallon tins, then? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: You mentioned bees. How many bees would you normally keep? HANKLA: Bees? FRICKER: Bees. HANKLA: I don't remember the exact number of hives. We had--must have been fourteen, fifteen, something like that. FRICKER: Do you still have bees out at the farm? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: So are you still harvesting the honey? HANKLA: No, no. You asked me did you still have? FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: No. FRICKER: How old were you when you got rid of the bees? HANKLA: Oh, let's see. That was about seventeen, eighteen years old. FRICKER: Seventeen, eighteen years old. What about making sorghum? About how old were you when you quit making sorghum? HANKLA: (laughs) I don't know. FRICKER: Did you make it after your father had died? HANKLA: I don't believe we did, no. FRICKER: (coughs) What about travelers? Did you have travelers that came by very often that-- HANKLA: Not very often to our place. We lived off the highway. No, we didn't, we didn't have much of that. FRICKER: Getting back to--to the meals. Who--who would attend the meals? Who would be there at mealtime? HANKLA: Mealtime? FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: We were all there, all the family. (laughs) FRICKER: How about your tenants? Did any of your tenants ever eat meals with you? HANKLA: No. They--they went to their house. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: We had extra work hands lots of times. And that was--that was the big job for my mother. We had to furnish--we had to feed them a lunch at noon. And it was always a big meal. And she--she worked pretty hard. FRICKER: Umhmm. So the--the farm hands would eat with you-all or-- HANKLA: Yes, except the tenants that lived on the farm. Of course he went back. FRICKER: Went back home. HANKLA: We had extra help at hay harvest; had to do most of it by hand then. (laughs) We'd need two, three extra people at hay harvest, and wheat cutting time. FRICKER: About how many hands would you normally hire during wheat cutting and hay cutting time? HANKLA: Oh, we wouldn't hire more than two. FRICKER: Umhmm. How would you go about finding folks? HANKLA: Usually neighbors. FRICKER: Umhmm. As far as the house, when did--when did you-all get indoor plumbing in the house? About how old were you when they--they put indoor plumbing in? HANKLA: We didn't have indoor plumbing until the water line--ran out to the battlefield. And I ran a water line from the highway over to our house. And that was a few years ago. FRICKER: Did you put a bathroom indoors then? HANKLA: Yes. Umhmm. FRICKER: The--how old were you when you first started using fertilizers and herbicides, things like that? HANKLA: We used fertilizer on tobacco, and tobacco only, oh, I guess sometime in the Twenties, Thirties. FRICKER: Where would you buy the fertilizer at? HANKLA: You could buy it at the stores in Perryville or Danville. FRICKER: How about herbicides? HANKLA: I guess that was about the same time. FRICKER: Did you ever use that Paris Green? HANKLA: That's the one thing we used to use on tobacco and potatoes. I used some on potatoes one time and I burned the whole potatoes up. (laughs) Used too much. I wanted to kill the potato bugs and I killed the vine and all. (laughs) I didn't know how much to use, until I burnt them up. Just burned the leaves, everything, just--there's nothing but the stems. So I decided I (laughs) didn't--we had some insecticides after that that was much better and safer to use. You learn a lot by your mistakes in farming, or gardening or whatever. FRICKER: What about talking to other farmers and--and the type of farm, things that they have tried? HANKLA: Well, they do that. They have a lot of discussions. Then we had the county agent. And he was--he was a big help. He would help you with a lot of things you didn't know about. FRICKER: Like what? HANKLA: Well, about when to plant and how much and what kind. And just about everything. He could help you just about--in just about anything you were doing. Know better ways to do it than you'd been doing it forever, lots of times. Of course a lot of people stuck to their old ways. Didn't amount to anything. FRICKER: Uh-huh. One of the things you mentioned yesterday was, you told me about Peddler George, that would--you told me the story about the guineas. How often would Peddler George come around? HANKLA: Oh, maybe once a year. Yeah. FRICKER: What sort of things did he carry? HANKLA: Mostly tablecloths, linens, things like that. No hardware and so---dry goods of some kind. FRICKER: How did you and your brothers get back and forth to school? HANKLA: Walked. FRICKER: Walked? HANKLA: Most of the time. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Sometimes my sisters would ride. There was four of us, and it was a little bit too many to get in the buggy. So sometimes they would ride. Sometimes we walked. But we walked most of the time. FRICKER: When--when your sisters rode in the buggy, who would drive the buggy? HANKLA: Either one of them. FRICKER: Either one of them? HANKLA: Umhmm. I guess the oldest one. FRICKER: What about your brothers and sisters? Did they all go to--go through high school? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: How about beyond high school? Did any of them go to college? HANKLA: One sister went to Eastern. At that time, you could go a certain length of time and get a teacher's certificate. Then you had to go back during the summer for a month or two to renew it or keep it up or something. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Anyway, she went to Richmond and the other sister took a business course and was a typist and shorthand and so forth. And that- -one of the other brothers went to the University of Kentucky and then to Morehead. And the youngest brother just went through high school, as I did. FRICKER: Did your brothers and sisters farm in the--as you did? HANKLA: My brothers did until they got--they helped with the farming 'til they got through school. Then they got jobs. They didn't stay on the farm. FRICKER: Did they ever get their--farms of their own? HANKLA: No. They did other things. One of my brothers worked for the Kentucky School for the Deaf for a long time; business manager in the office. And the other brother had a business of his own for awhile. He was a--he had a garage, automobile dealer. He'd sell Studebaker. And then he worked for Sandusky's Mill in Harrodsburg. See, what was he doing in--I've forgotten what he did after that. FRICKER: What about your children? Any of your children farming? HANKLA: No. FRICKER: What type of work do they do? HANKLA: One boy lives in Washington. He's a physicist with the National Security--that's--he's a stepson. And one of the other boys works for state government over in Frankfort. And the youngest boy is dealer supervisor for--for--people that manufacture dairy equipment. The J Star Line they call it. They make dairy equipment and feeding equipment, and I don't know what-all. He's dealer supervisor. He has Ohio and Indiana and Kentucky and Tennessee. I believe that's most of his territory now. Travels most of the time. But he lives at--on the farm. I sold him ten acres off my farm and he built a new house, right on the edge of the cliff. Right--the highest part. It's--it's unusual. And it faces the cliff--faces the river. You fall off the front porch, you'd keep rolling if you'd go, into the water I guess. It's a very attractive place. FRICKER: Sounds like it. HANKLA: He has his--the--the field, the ten acres has been sowed in bluegrass. It's a pretty lawn. But you can see the house from the road, sitting back there. It just looks more like a barn or something till you get over there. FRICKER: Is that over here by the battlefield? HANKLA: Yes, up past the entrance to the battlefield on the east side. FRICKER: Did--did your children work on the farm with you as they were growing up? HANKLA: As--as kids, yes. Umhmm. Yes, the two boys--two of the boys and I could do just about anything we had to do. We cut tobacco and we would top it or whatever we had to do. Then cut in the afternoon. We'd--we'd do it. We didn't have to do it all right quick. No particular hurry. And we'd get one extra man to help when we hauled it in, when we were cutting. He'd hand it off the wagon and the other two boys--the barn was just four tiers high. And the other two boys could hang it. And I'd take it from the man, handed it off the wagon to them so we got along fine. FRICKER: What kind of tobacco were you putting up? HANKLA: Well, it was just burley. FRICKER: Burley? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: I think one of the things you mentioned yesterday, that you had also grew was hay? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Did you--when you were farming yourself, did you ever use the big rolls of hay? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: When did you start using that? When did you switch? HANKLA: That's sort of a late thing in the hay business. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: We used to bale it in--well, at first, we used to put it in loose; just loose hay. And then we got a baler to make the square bales they called them. Small bales. I still have that baler. Occasionally I bale some like that to put in the barn if I'm going to have some to feed in the barn. But we usually bale it now with the big round bales. Line it up someplace out of the way. Leave it. When you feed it, you just take out what you want to feed. Out in the field the--the cattle will help themselves. Saves a lot of handling [so] that one person can do it. That's all there is to it anymore. FRICKER: Umhmm. When did you switch to the--about how many years ago did you switch to the rolled--the rolled hay? HANKLA: Well, there's a--came out, I imagine, maybe ten years ago. FRICKER: Did--did you buy a--the roller? HANKLA: No. No, I don't own a roller baler. Have a square baler, but the rolls--you can--you can get somebody to do that cheaper than you can own it. Or that's been my experience. FRICKER: How about family reunions when you were growing up? Did you-all have many reunions? HANKLA: Unions? FRICKER: Reunions. Family reunions. HANKLA: Oh. Oh, not reunions as such. Every so often you'd have a big part of the family for dinner, Thanksgiving or Christmas or something. But we didn't have any what you call reunions. But a lot of people do. FRICKER: How about church? What--did you-all belong to a church? HANKLA: My father wasn't a member of any church, but he favored Presbyterian. And my mother was Baptist. So we were Baptist for awhile. And I think most of us switched over to Presbyterian. I know the boys have. I--I just like the way Presbyterians do it. FRICKER: When did you switch over to Presbyterian? HANKLA: Oh, golly, I don't--well, when--when I married--my wife belonged to the Christian Church. And, of course, I was a Baptist. And we--we lived in a--in an apartment on Broadway here in town. And it was diagonally across the street from the Second Presbyterian Church. And the lady we--that owned the place where we lived was a member of that church. And some other good friends was the boys at the bank where I worked was Second Church, and the wife at that time worked for Wes--- Wiseman Company. And those people were Second Presbyterian. So we just went over there. We joined that church. Before she was a member of the Christian Church of Perryville, and I was a member of the Baptist. And I've been mighty glad I did. And now the--the two Presbyterian Churches here joined, and it's just one church now, Presbyterian. FRICKER: Umhmm. You said you liked the Presbyterian Church. What was it about that church that you liked? HANKLA: Well, everything. I liked the preacher in the first place. And then I--I just liked the building. And I just liked the way they did it. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Everybody went their own way. They didn't bother anybody. They were all friendly. But I--I just liked the way they did it. They didn't--they just seemed to live their religion. They didn't try to rub it in on anybody. They just went their own way, and I just liked- -I liked all the people there. Not that I don't like other people, but they particularly appeal to me. FRICKER: Okay. I'd like--sort of like to switch gears here a little bit and talk about the farm itself, and the buildings that are on the farm. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: What I'd like to get you to do is just sort of sketch out where the house was, or is. And the buildings that were around. And tell me about the buildings that were around the house. Okay? So just sketch in a--where the--where the house would be, and then show me where the-- the buildings around the house-- HANKLA: Well, that's the house. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: And right now there's a little garage right out here. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And-- FRICKER: Let's put a one in the house. And a two right here in that garage. Okay. When was this garage built? HANKLA: I don't remember when, but-- FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: There's a little barn right about down here. FRICKER: We'll call that number three. HANKLA: Then there's another one right here. FRICKER: We'll call that one number four. HANKLA: And then right straight to the--down behind it, there's another one. FRICKER: Number five. HANKLA: And then about over here, there's another one. FRICKER: Umhmm. Number six. HANKLA: And then, let's see. Right about here is what used to be a buggy house. FRICKER: Number seven. Is that not there anymore? HANKLA: Now, that's all there is on the home-place, I believe. FRICKER: The buggy house--the buggy house still there? HANKLA: Yes. Umhmm. But I use it for a shop. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And this has a long shed on it and got machinery in it. Got a combine and two, three other things, corn picker and my wagon, a wood- -wood-wheeled wagon. One of the old-time wagons. Now, that--that-- that's the home-place. FRICKER: Umhmm. Was there a smokehouse? HANKLA: Oh, yeah. Let's see. That--I forgot about the smokehouse. It's number eight. FRICKER: Number eight. Is it still there? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: Are you using it for-- HANKLA: It's made out of cherry. FRICKER: Made out of cherry? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Wow. HANKLA: And this building here is, too. FRICKER: Number seven? HANKLA: Umhmm. HANKLA: Cherry boards one inch thick. They had a lot of it then, you know. FRICKER: Was that cut off of the farm? HANKLA: I don't know. It's been there so long, I don't know. Now, this smokehouse and that--this machine shed or garage or whatever you want to call it, here--used to be the wheat house. It had a garner in it that we stored wheat in. We always saved out own seed, and enough wheat to make our flour. And we'd take the flour to--our wheat to a water mill down on Salt River that--between Perryville and Harrodsburg. Very near to Harrodsburg. And he would grind it and we'd take it back home and we'd eat it. We'd take--it was an all-day trip to drive from the farm down there to have the wheat ground and get back home with it. FRICKER: Let me interrupt you and turn the tape here. [Tape one, side a ends; tape one, side b begins.] FRICKER: So it was an all-day trip to go down and--and get the wheat ground. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: When would you normally do that? HANKLA: Well, about once a year. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And we--we had some barrels that were flour barrels. They were lighter barrels than rainwater--big barrels, whiskey barrels. Just-- we'd pack that flour in, dump it in there and you could pack it in. You could put a whole lot in the barrel. We'd have that--that--two barrels and--well, maybe three barrels. There's one small barrel; two barrels of one size and one smaller one. And that would last us for about a year. FRICKER: Umhmm. What time of year would you normally get it ground? HANKLA: Sometime during the summer. I'm not sure. FRICKER: But it would be during the summertime. HANKLA: After--after you cut--after you thrash the wheat. It'd be awhile before you could grind it; sometime after that, maybe toward the fall. I'm not sure. FRICKER: And you would store that in this building number seven. That which--was the buggy house? HANKLA: Yes. Umhmm. FRICKER: Would--I'm sorry. HANKLA: We--we'd store what we wanted to keep - enough for our seed and what we'd use, then sell the rest of it. FRICKER: Where would you sell? HANKLA: Take it to Perryville to the mill. They had a flour mill there. FRICKER: The--the building that you stored the--the--the seed and--and the flour in, were you using that as a buggy house at the same time? HANKLA: Yes. Umhmm. It had enough room on the side for a buggy, and then the wheat garner was on the other side. FRICKER: Umhmm. How about the smokehouse? Are you using it for anything now? HANKLA: Oh, nothing in particular. We don't--we don't put meat in it anymore. We used to--when we killed our hogs, we stored the meat there. FRICKER: Umhmm. Whereabouts in the yard would you kill hogs at? HANKLA: We didn't kill them in the yard. It was out--out here in the barn lot. FRICKER: Barn lot? Around that-- HANKLA: Not far from--is this the smokehouse? No? FRICKER: Smokehouse, you said, was number eight. HANKLA: Right about in there. Right along out here. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: So we wouldn't have far to take it, process it. FRICKER: How about this building right here, number two. What was that again? HANKLA: Garage. FRICKER: Garage? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Was that there--was that something that you built later on? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: Was it after you married or-- HANKLA: Oh, yes, long time after. Umhmm. FRICKER: How about this building right here, number three? HANKLA: Oh, that--that originally was a log cabin. And it had--I guess my father or somebody had added a shed to it, all the way around; made a much bigger building. Added those sheds and boxed it up. And the logs in this building began to rot and get--the door--the door--the door was hardly tall enough to get in without ducking. You'd bump your head. So I decided one time we'd just jack that top row of logs up, plate, and put posts under it. Take all those logs out. And we did that. And it makes a good little barn with these sheds all the way around and different stalls and--and partitions in it. FRICKER: What type of barn did you use--was it used for? HANKLA: What was that used for? FRICKER: What--what kind of barn was it? What did you use it for? HANKLA: Oh, well, that--we used it for milk cows. That's the place we did our milking. We did it by hand. FRICKER: How about after you got rid of the milk cows? What did you-- HANKLA: Well, we just used it to store--maybe store hay and whatever in. FRICKER: Is it still standing today? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: You said at one time it was a log cabin. Did your family ever use it as a cabin? HANKLA: No. Uh-uh. Used to call it the cow house. Still do. FRICKER: Still do? (Hankla laughs) How about this--oh, you call this the--this building down here, is that the buggy house or-- HANKLA: Yes, uh-huh. Yeah, that--that was the buggy--I believe that was the buggy house. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: And how about this barn back here, number four; the one that's behind the smokehouse? HANKLA: That's the stock barn. It's about a hundred yards from--from the house. And it has stalls for horses, and a shed. We have stored machine--two stored in the barn. Farm tools. We don't have any stock down there anymore, so I don't use it for that. FRICKER: Did you ever use it for your cattle? HANKLA: Yes. Umhmm. Yes, we used it for cattle. And we--we put tobacco in it now. That's about the main thing it's used for; that and just storing machinery. FRICKER: Was that something that was on the farm when you were growing up, or did you--did you build that? HANKLA: This barn, my father built that--the year I was born, 1903. That's when this barn was built. It's eighty feet long I believe. There's two corncribs, one of each side of the driveway on the back end. And then on that, on the east side of it, we had some farm scales to weigh livestock. FRICKER: Umhmm. Were those scales something that you dad put in, or did you--did you put those in? HANKLA: Well, he had scales but they went bad and we had to replace them. And I put these in. FRICKER: And that was--that was to the east? On the east side-- HANKLA: On the east side of this barn, umhmm. And we had a lot there, a holding pen. FRICKER: How large was the holding pen? HANKLA: Well, it--it was about a hundred feet one way and--well, I guess almost square, something like that. And I think we had a holding sheep head--a holding arrangement and--de-horning, if they had to do any de-horning. Last time I had that done I decided I'd never buy another calf with horns if I had to de-horn them. I don't like that. FRICKER: Tell me about it. HANKLA: Well, it's--I imagine it'd be just about like sawing your arm off. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: And he can't--the calf can't do a thing about it but stand there and bawl. And then we--we used to do that, and then we used pine tar to put over--that'd keep the flies off, and I think it aided healing, too. So I just decided no more horns. FRICKER: So you bought your calves that'd already been de-horned when you bought them. HANKLA: I--I got into the Angus business, and they don't have horns. FRICKER: Ah, okay. What kind of cattle were you growing--raising prior to Angus? HANKLA: Well, we--we'd just buy a bunch of stock steers. We used to buy them in the fall and sell them the next fall. And that big job of feeding them through the winter wasn't worth what it cost. So my father started buying in the spring. Buy them in the early spring and feed awhile until the grass got started. And then sell them in the fall off the grass. FRICKER: Umhmm. Now, the switch to Angus, was that something that you did or did your father do it? HANKLA: No, I did it. FRICKER: About how long ago was that? When did you switch to the Angus? HANKLA: Oh, I imagine in the Forties or Fifties, somewhere along in there. FRICKER: Is Angus a popular breed in this area or-- HANKLA: Yes. It was--it was very popular at that time. Of course we have some new breeds now that are--a lot of competition. But the Angus seem to finish earlier or easier; a little heavier weight. I used to have the Herefords. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And I bought fourteen heifers. And--Angus heifers. Got me started on them. And bred them. And I had real good luck with it. They--I guess I been pretty lucky, too. I never did get hurt--hurt with them. I handled them a lot by myself. But it's pretty dangerous. You have to watch cattle. If you have an Angus cow that really gets scared, and she's--she's dangerous. I don't know about the rest of them, but I know an Angus, if they get scared, get mad or something, you better watch your step. You better get out of the way. Stay out of the way till she gets over it. Yeah. But they--they finish earlier or seem to. If you're grazing them, they look like they're in better shape to sell in the fall than stockers or feeders that somebody wants to feed them out. FRICKER: Umhmm. You mentioned that--that the Angus can get--be dangerous, but that you were--you were lucky and never been hurt. Did you know of any of your fellow farmers that--that you knew or-- HANKLA: Well, once in awhile you'd hear of somebody that gets mauled pretty badly by a bull or something. Now, I wouldn't trust a bull, I don't care how gentle he is, as far as I could throw them by the tail. Because you can't tell what they're going to do. You never know what they'll do next. I know one--one that--he didn't hurt people, but he sure pushed me out of the way. I was feeding him. And he came in right by the side of me and he--I guess he thought I was in the way. Anyway, he just took that head and pushed me winding. And I didn't get too close to him anymore after that. As I remember, another time I was--I had a bull that he'd evidently been trained to eat off of--not off the ground, but in a box or something; up off the ground. And I was giving him some corn. I--I was feeding hay and it was kind of bad weather. I chopped up some--ear of corn just in small nuggets. And he wouldn't eat that stuff unless he could eat it off the wagon. He'd stand around there, and I was putting some on the wagon for him and he came along. Standing there eating and I--I had a grubbing hoe on the wagon. I been cutting thorns, sprouts or hedge wherever I'd find them when I was scattering hay out in the field. Sometimes you'd find one, you'd cut 'em. So that grubbing hoe was on the wagon, and this bull was standing there eating. And there was a little hedge that grew up there, and it was just about--touches him under the bottom. And I thought, well, I'll cut that thing off. And I punched him a time or two with the handle to move, to get him over and he didn't move. And I thought, well, I'll just reach over there and cut it off. And when I hit that little old bush, it made it flip up, and one of those thorns stuck him and he kicked me so quick, was just a glancing lick on my shin, but it- -it--but if he hit me a solid lick, I'd probably have broken a leg. And I thought, well, that's a good lesson for me. Next time I try to do something like that, I'll be more careful. But that little old thing, it wasn't about--just tall enough to come up to his bottom. Of course it had some thorns on it. And when I hit it, it flapped up there and hit him and he hit me. (laughs) I'm glad he didn't hit me solid. His foot hit me there on the shin and slipped off. FRICKER: Your left leg? HANKLA: Yeah. It was--and he did it--he did it so quick. No warning or anything. Just the minute I hit him, he kicked me. Of course that's the only way they have of defending themselves - kick or run. And (laughs) he didn't stop eating. He just kept eating. (laughs) The thorn didn't hurt him very much; just surprised him. FRICKER: Yeah. (laughs) Enough to get him to kick. (both laugh) Well, you mentioned some Herefords. When did you have Herefords? HANKLA: Before I had the Angus. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: We had--we had--we had--see, we had thirty--thirty-something. There's a boy from Houstonville - I believe that's where he used to live - anyway, he was--he was going out to Texas to buy some cattle for two or three different people. He was a good judge of cattle. Real good cattle man. And he was buying cattle for several people here. And I asked him to buy us a load, carload. And we had thirty-two I believe. Thirty-two or three in this carload. You couldn't tell one from another. He had picked them out of a big bunch. And they were the prettiest cattle you've ever seen. And we-- we had--let's see. That was during the war when the price was frozen. You could get--and I got ready to sell them and I kept them all the summer and grazed them. They did well. I remember taking Mr. Fox Caldwell down there to look at them. I thought he'd be interested in them. And he looked them over and he walked around [and] through them. And there was another thing about them. They were gentle. Sometimes in getting- -when you get those cattle from a ranch, they're wild. You'll have one or two wild ones. And it--that's kind of troublesome. But these were gentle. And he walked around through them for a long time. He said, "Well, I'm not gonna ask you to price them. They're too good for me." He said they were a better grade of cattle than he bought. He bought what you used--what you called the good viewing kind. They didn't have to be purebred anything; crossbreeds. He didn't care if they had horns or things like that. But they do well in feeding. They--they gain and made good beef cattle. But he said that's the best bunch of cattle he'd seen in a long time. And I tried to sell them to two or three different people and--I was asking, they thought, a little bit too much. I had--they had a freeze on them and I was trying to get the top price. And I'd been trying to sell them to a man from Lincoln County that was a cattle man - big cattle man. I won't call his name, but he- -I--I was working at the bank then. He was in there quite often. He came in one day and I--he said he tried to think of some excuse to come in. (laughs) He knew that I'd jump him about the cattle. And he said, "I'll give you what I offered you for them." And I don't know, twenty- two, three cents, something like that. And I said, "All right, I'll let you have them." And he said, "You bring them up here to the stockyards on a certain Monday," and he--I didn't know it, but after that, he knew that that freeze was going off. He bought two or three bunches like that. And--and I lost about--about three cents a pound. Other people did, too. And didn't need--none of them liked it. I never did--well, I had a different opinion of that man after that, because he took advantage of me. If he hadn't done that, I'd a kept them, maybe, three or four days if I'd a known that, that the freeze was going off and they'd go up a little bit. I lost a whole lot of money on them. And I brought them to the stockyards on a certain Monday. And he had them down there in a pen and everybody was looking at them and talking about them. And when they had the sale, he had the boys drive them through. And they was all milling around there, you know, and he says, "Now boys, these cattle have already been sold. I just want to show them to you." And that's all he said. Then he took them off. Felt like going over and kicking him in the seat of his pants. (laughs) FRICKER: By that time, you'd found out that the freeze was about to go off? HANKLA: Yeah, it had. Umhmm. Yeah, it's off. He knew it was coming. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Yeah, he bought--he bought them some more people's cattle out here. Great big bunch of them. And they didn't--they didn't appreciate it either. FRICKER: Did you-all ever deal with him again? HANKLA: No. He's not living anymore. He's not--I didn't--I didn't--I haven't had any cattle for quite awhile. I was down there one day and I decided, well, I'll just--believe I'll sell out. Sell every one of those cattle, and pay all my debts and be through with it. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And I called a fella up, asked him if he'd be interested in them. Said yes, he had somebody in Ohio wanted about that many cattle. And he went down and looked through them and all around, and made me an offer. I didn't even ask him to give me more or anything. I just said come and get them. And I haven't had one since. FRICKER: About how long ago was that, when you got rid of them? HANKLA: I imagine about eight to ten years. Eight or ten years, something like that. FRICKER: ----------(??). HANKLA: Renee. FRICKER: Oh, do we need to pause or-- HANKLA: Hmm? FRICKER: Do we need to stop the tape or-- HANKLA: Oh, no. Uh-uh. FRICKER: So when you sold out ten years or so ago, were--did you still have Angus cattle then or were you still raising Angus? HANKLA: I haven't had any cattle. FRICKER: But the ones that you sold, were they Angus? HANKLA: Huh? FRICKER: The ones that you sold, were they Angus? HANKLA: Yeah. Umhmm. Umhmm. FRICKER: So you were still growing--you--you stuck with Angus after--I guess, after-- HANKLA: I think I'll rent some pasture. Rent pasture. I had a neighbor--well, the fella that--that raised some crops on the farm. He--he pastured his cows out there for awhile. I think he had about thirty-five, something like that. But I--I need about forty or fifty. FRICKER: So you're thinking about getting back into it? HANKLA: No. I've got to get something. Could borrow some of my neighbor's herd. (laughs) That wouldn't be a bad idea. FRICKER: That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. HANKLA: Wouldn't have to buy them. FRICKER: That's right. (both laugh) HANKLA: Just borrow them. FRICKER: Might be able to work out a deal that way. When you were--when you were raising cattle, did--did you ever use artificial insemination, or did-- HANKLA: No. Just a couple of times, I believe. Think I had some heifers that I bred. FRICKER: Did you get advice from that--from folks or-- HANKLA: I--I don't know. I got the idea, I guess, from our Angus Association, that artificial insemination is a good way to get some good stock, good blood lines, and some--some reputation. It--it's a good idea. I think if I ever get back in the business, I'll use it. FRICKER: Well, looking at our map here, we've talked about these buildings up here. How about building number five. What--what's that? HANKLA: That's--that's a cattle barn. FRICKER: Cattle barn? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Was that something that you built or that your dad built? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: About when--when was that, that you--you built it? HANKLA: Well, let's see. I built it for the--this barn has had two or three additions. The regular barn was built, I guess, in the late Twenties. Yeah, probably in the late Twenties. And it had an ell put on the east side, and an extension on the back, and the silo. FRICKER: Umhmm. And has it always been a cattle barn? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: Never used for anything else? HANKLA: Well, we used it--we've used it for storage for hay. But cattle was all we ever had there. FRICKER: How about building number six down here? HANKLA: That's a tobacco barn. FRICKER: Tobacco barn? HANKLA: Umhmm. That's just a small one. FRICKER: Umhmm. When was that built? HANKLA: My father built that. Oh, a long time ago, maybe '16 or `17, something like that. FRICKER: How about the outhouse? Where was the outhouse located? HANKLA: The bathroom? The outhouse bathroom? It was along--along about here. FRICKER: Okay. We'll call that number--what is that? Number nine I guess. Where was the well drilled? HANKLA: Where? FRICKER: Yeah. Where--whereabouts was it located? HANKLA: Along there. FRICKER: Over near building number two. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. And we'll just--let's just label that number ten. We'll label the well number ten. Where--where was the--the fence for the yard? How did the--how did the yard fence run? HANKLA: Well, let's see. Yeah, this is the garage--no, it didn't go that far. That's outside here. FRICKER: Okay. So building number two was outside the fence. HANKLA: No. Building number--yeah. FRICKER: The garage. HANKLA: Umhmm. Yeah. It was outside the fence. That's the well. It was right through there. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And that's the smokehouse. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Put it there. Yeah. 'Bout like that. FRICKER: Okay. So the well was inside the fence then. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. How about the driveway? HANKLA: Huh? FRICKER: The driveway? HANKLA: Driveway? FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: To the highway? FRICKER: To--yeah. HANKLA: Well, it started here and went down through the field, all the way across the creek. FRICKER: How far was it from the highway? HANKLA: About--little over two thousand feet, or short. That's the water line. This'll be a little longer. FRICKER: Umhmm. Let's just sort of sketch in the direction that the-- the driveway would have taken. Like over that way? Okay. Which way was north on this map? HANKLA: North--this way. FRICKER: Down--down this way? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Let's mark a little arrow over here. Here we go. And that's- -that's north. Okay. Great. How about the tenant houses? Were they located anywhere near the main house? HANKLA: No. They--the tenant houses--let's see. This Chaplain River comes around up here--way along up here. FRICKER: Umhmm. Over toward the, let's see, north, south, east--west. (laughs) Had to--had to stop and look at my directions there to tell me which way west was. HANKLA: I've got some pictures--let me get--let me see if I can find them. FRICKER: Okay. I'll put us on pause here. [Pause in recording.] FRICKER: We've started looking at some photographs. And this first one that we're looking at, you said this was a one-room schoolhouse? HANKLA: Yes. FRICKER: Tell me about it. Which--which school was this? HANKLA: It's called Providence. And it was on the Mackville Road just past the entrance to the battlefield. Not very far. Just before the road starts down the hill. And these--let's see, this girl, these two and this one are sisters. FRICKER: In the middle row-- HANKLA: The Crouch girls. FRICKER: --of one, two--third, fourth and fifth from the right there. HANKLA: Yeah. Umhmm. Crouch. They--they lived up across from the schoolhouse on the farm. Polk White's dead. FRICKER: Down on the bottom row, first-- HANKLA: Yeah, umhmm. FRICKER: --on the--on the left. HANKLA: Yeah, he's about my age. See, this boy and this one and this one, that's Virgil Carpenter. FRICKER: On the very back row on the left. HANKLA: Behind me. And I don't know who that is. I can't see well enough. FRICKER: The boy standing next to Virgil is you. HANKLA: That's me. With my--see my fancy hair-do? FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: Wouldn't used to comb it at all. And I was trying to comb it back and it'd just stand straight up. This girl is Leone Crain. FRICKER: Standing next to the teacher in the back. HANKLA: Yeah. Umhmm. And that's my sister Nancy. FRICKER: The-- HANKLA: On the right, his right. FRICKER: On his right. HANKLA: And this is the Carpenter girls. FRICKER: To Nancy's right. HANKLA: Ethel Carpenter. And this is Gladys Crain. She's a sister of this one. FRICKER: To--okay, Gladys is to the right of-- HANKLA: Ethel Carpenter. FRICKER: And then her sister is-- HANKLA: Leone. FRICKER: The one that's standing to the left of the teacher. HANKLA: Now, she has another sister, younger sister. I don't know where she is. I don't know which one is her. And this one is the Cocanougher girl. FRICKER: Middle row, sixth from--from the--from the left there. Or the right. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Teacher's left. Teacher's left. HANKLA: This is a Carpenter girl. Vallie Carpenter. She was a sister of this--this boy. She was a nice girl, too. FRICKER: Now, the--this boy, the second from the teach---far-- HANKLA: He is--he is the county--he was the county school superintendent. FRICKER: This first one? HANKLA: This one. Cocanougher. That's another Cocanougher. FRICKER: And who's the boy standing at the-- HANKLA: Carpenter. That's--that's a smart boy. This was the Sinkhorn girl. FRICKER: Third to his--okay. HANKLA: And this is a Harmon, Lena Harmon. And this one is Catherine Van Arsdall. And Leone Crain. And the teacher, Pat Best. And my sister, Nancy. Ethel Carpenter. And Gladys Crain. That's me. This is Virgil Carpenter. This boy and this girl are brother and sister. FRICKER: Virgil is brother to who? HANKLA: Brother to Ethel Carpenter. And there's another younger brother--this boy is another brother. That's Clarence Carpenter. FRICKER: Why don't we start the second--the second from the back row here. Who's this? HANKLA: That Paul Van Arsdall. FRICKER: Okay, and next to Paul is-- HANKLA: I don't know who that is. FRICKER: Okay. And how about next to this? HANKLA: And that is a Crouch girl. This one's a Crouch, and this one's a Crouch. See, they're all dressed the same. FRICKER: Uh-huh. And how about this? HANKLA: And that one's Catherine Cocanougher. No, she's Butler. Catherine Butler. She married a Cocanougher. And I don't know who that is. FRICKER: And the next one over? HANKLA: And I don't know that one. FRICKER: Next one? HANKLA: And that looks like Vallie Carpenter. And I'm not sure who that boy is, or this one. And that's Ronald Bradley. FRICKER: How about him? The one next-- HANKLA: I'm not sure who that is either. FRICKER: Okay, so let's come back over and start down at the bottom. HANKLA: That's Clearance Carpenter. And that's W.T. Bowles. And that's Walter White. Jack, we called him. And that's Marshall Gibson. That's my brother, Willis. And that's Ryker Harmon. I don't know who that is, or that one. Not sure about that one either. That's Paul Gibson. And that's Willie Roney. And Polk White. FRICKER: Polk White. Okay. That's all of them in the--so we started at the time and--started at the back and moved--moved down. HANKLA: I--I'm sure some of the rest of them, my sister would know them, I'm sure. FRICKER: About how old were you when this picture was taken? HANKLA: Let's see. I must have been about twelve or thirteen, I guess. I imagine. Maybe fourteen. (laughs) That's a funny hair-do. My mother always cut our hair. FRICKER: Oh, really? HANKLA: Yeah, and we didn't bother about combing. If we did, just combed it straight and went on. But I was trying to get fancy for the picture. I'd a done better to let it alone, I think. Boy, that's been a long time ago. (laughs) FRICKER: Well, how about this--this second photo here, which we'll call photo two? Let me write on it in pencil real lightly back here. What-- tell me about this photo. HANKLA: Now, that's the front of our house. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: This is my father and my grandmother, his mother. And I don't know whether that horse is Old Colonel or Jack. People used to ride a horse back then. My mother was--was a good rider. She had a side saddle and we had some mill stones that--you know, these big round mill stones? Well, there used to be a mill and distillery down there at our farm. The people that built the house had this mill as a water mill. And we--my father, I guess, took those mill stones up there and put them on each side of the front gate. There was--there's four of them. But he put one under the pump. It was tapered on top. It wasn't just flat like the others, it was tapered. He put that under the pump. And these other three were out there. And they used them for women to get on the horses. They stepped up on those mill stones, pull the horse up to the side and just sit down on the saddle. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: The ride--they rode side saddle. We had two of those saddles. Then somebody stole them. They stole--so they just cleaned out-- after we left there, my mother put a lot of things in one room, the far end of the house, and locked the door. Well, somebody got in there. Of course it'd be no trouble to unlock with a key, you know. Somebody--and took everything. I mean everything out of that house - and got those two saddles. One was just as good as new. And the other, of course, my mother had used for a long time. She'd had it a long time. But she would put that saddle on the horse, get up on those mill stones and jump on. And she also had a--what she called a riding skirt. It's a great big skirt at the bottom, and she'd step in it--it's black. And buttons up around her waist. And that kept her clothes clean, you know. Not touching the horse or saddle or anything. And when she got where she was going, she would unbutton it, step out of it and hang it up on the horn over the saddle and go on about her business. But she put the saddle on the horse and take on down the road lickety-split. You'd be surprised how they could hang on to those, with those side saddles. FRICKER: Would she saddle her own horse? HANKLA: Oh, yes. My mother was a good mechanic. She could fix anything or--just anything. Wonderful seamstress. And she used to make our shirts. Collars. She made a collar and my shirts until I came to work in Danville. And she could--she pinned, she didn't have a pattern. We were always growing, so patterns didn't grow with us. She stands us up there on the floor, get a newspaper, pin it on our back. And she could cut her own pattern. Make a collar fit as good as this one. She'd just do anything. And she had a little--she had one of those metal cabinets that sets on the table. I wish we had that. I've only seen one like it. It's quite an antique. It had all kinds of compartments in it, and long narrow drawers and wide drawers. And a place to put flour, you know. You'd have to sift it. And it had a crank on the outside. Put the flour in the compartment that was on the end of this cabinet. And then when she'd crank it, sift the flour, that--it would work a little bit, make a popping noise. And I remember hearing her sift flour. It would wake you up just like an alarm clock. We heard her sifting flour to get ready to make biscuits. Better get out of there. (laughs) FRICKER: Stop here then and switch-- [Tape one, side b ends; tape two, side a begins.] HANKLA: ----------(??). FRICKER: So you said that porch was not changed any. HANKLA: Not--no. I--I've got to make some new steps for it. I thought I would get some rocks and make a rock end and wood center. But I think I'll put it back just like it was. Make it out of wide boards. And there's a rock right in the center behind her; just a big flat rock that you step on first, right on the ground. One, two, three, three wood steps. And this tree is gone. The stump's still there. Quite a bit larger than that one now. And there used to be a mockingbird that had a nest in that tree and he perched right on that, right on the tip top of it. And he just set up there and sing and every once in awhile he'd fly right straight up and then come back down. This hall goes straight through. The door's on the other side just like that. And it's nearly all a--always a breeze. Used to say that was the coolest place in the house in the summertime, these great big windows. Don't have weights. You have to push them up. And the shutters got in bad shape. They were sagging and some of the joints were loose. I brought them home to repair and I haven't got it done yet. I'm--I don't know. I might not be able to get it done. I'll have to get somebody to help me. That's a good picture, but it's faded. And we put a metal shingle roof on it instead of this wood shingle. FRICKER: When did you replace the roof? HANKLA: Hmm? FRICKER: When did you replace the roof? HANKLA: When? FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Oh, that's been twenty-five to thirty years ago. It's--I've got to paint it, too. I ought to get that done this fall. FRICKER: Well, tell me about this photo. Photo number three. What are we looking at there? HANKLA: Now, that's the back side of this. That's the back side, that's right straight through the hall. This is a door that's on the back of the hall. That's the back porch. I put a new floor since then. That's my son and his wife. We were doing some work there. We had a picnic down there. See, somebody left a plate there. Step ladder. And this is another room-- FRICKER: On the left there. HANKLA: --that--that's this--yeah. That's this--yeah, that's this room here. FRICKER: So in photo two, the--the window on the--on the far right is the one showing in photo three on the left. HANKLA: This--this door goes out to this room onto this porch. And these steps were made before this was put in. My father made that. FRICKER: Made those steps? HANKLA: Made these steps, yeah. And then it goes over here to the wall. Comes down this way, and there's a door goes in over here. There's a window right along about here. Goes into another room. That used to be our living room. And then back of that is--what was two rooms, a dining room and kitchen. And I took the partition out and made it all one room. I put in a bathroom there. And we had--we had electricity about 1917 or `18. Had our own plant. It was in the basement. Right along out this way. It was under--under this room. FRICKER: Looking at photo two, it was under the room on the-- HANKLA: Let's see, the house faces east--yeah. Like that. It was under this room. FRICKER: The room on the left in--in photo--photo two. HANKLA: The south end. FRICKER: Umhmm. The south end. HANKLA: We had an entrance that went into the basement on the outside. And the--the basement was just under this room. And it was made to store whiskey from the distillery they made, double barrels of whiskey. FRICKER: Umhmm. Was this formerly the site of the distillery or--was the farm formerly a distillery, the site of a distillery or-- HANKLA: Well, the distillery was there on the farm, yeah, down in--down- -down in front of it near the river. Distillery and the mill. FRICKER: Was that in your father's time or before he bought the farm? HANKLA: This was when he was a youngster. Before he was--yeah, he didn't--it's all been torn out. He tore the old mill house down. I remember the big pile of lumber he had out there, and he used a big lot of it in building that new barn. He used a lot of the sills and joists around it. FRICKER: Which barn--which barn would that have been on the map? HANKLA: This one. Where's the one behind the-- FRICKER: Here's the house. HANKLA: --house. This one. FRICKER: Barn number or building number four. HANKLA: Is that the one behind the house? FRICKER: Yeah. Here's the house here. HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: So this is the one he--building number four here is the barn that he used the wood from the mill. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. How about-- HANKLA: He--nearly all of the framing in the barn came out of this old mill. He used quite a bit of the boxing in other places, but none on that. FRICKER: Well, photo number four here. What are we looking at there? HANKLA: Well, now, that--that's the backside--that's the back--backside of this. FRICKER: Here we go. HANKLA: I thought I'd drop them. See, this--this picture is--is steps right there. That's this picture here. FRICKER: Okay. Looking at photo four and photo three, they're behind the--the--the young girl and woman-- HANKLA: Yeah, there was two kids. FRICKER: The--oh, two kids? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: Okay. There's a step. And it's the same step that we see in photo three. Okay. HANKLA: Yeah, you see--right here is right up in that corner. FRICKER: Right. HANKLA: Comes down--comes down this way. And there's a door - this is offset here. FRICKER: On the left. HANKLA: Yeah. Used to be a door right, right around the corner there. Right there. That went in--you came out a door up here. That's this door here. Came out this door and walked right down that--this concrete step from here on down to here. And there used to be a door that went into this room here. Well, that--that was closed up. I closed that up. I didn't close the door, it already been closed, but it--just weatherboarded. And I took it out and bricked it up, and put a window in it. And put a bathroom there. FRICKER: Umhmm. So this side on the left here where we see the window is where the bathroom's at. HANKLA: Yeah, but the bathroom didn't come down to the window. FRICKER: Oh, okay. HANKLA: It stops off back here. I'd like to take you down there. FRICKER: I'd like to see it, get a--get a chance. Yeah, I'd be interested in taking-- HANKLA: The trouble is, my bridge washed out. I can't get there. I have to go out to Harrodsburg Road about--it's about three or four miles. Otherwise, it's just about two, a little better. Just about two and a quarter, I believe, maybe two and a half from the house. The house is about twenty-five hundred feet off the highway. FRICKER: Umhmm. Can you get to it by going through Harrodsburg? HANKLA: Yeah. Go--go out to Harrodsburg Road here to Perryville. And turn in the county road. And it goes back that way. You can get to it that way, if it's dry. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: This is my daughter and the little girl that lived there on the farm. FRICKER: In photo--photo five. HANKLA: That's a tenant. FRICKER: Which one is the tenant? HANKLA: The larger one. FRICKER: The larger one. And which--which daughter is this? HANKLA: That's my daughter. FRICKER: Which one? HANKLA: That's--I don't have but one. FRICKER: Oh, you only had one daughter. Oh. In photo three, sitting here, which son is this? HANKLA: This is my son. That's--he's my oldest. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: And that's his wife, Mary Pat. She was a Spencer. FRICKER: Okay, how about this next photo here, number five? HANKLA: Yes. Now, this is the north side of the house. FRICKER: Umhmm. That's the north side of the house? And what's this building, right, the other building? HANKLA: That's what they called the wheat house, or buggy house. FRICKER: Number seven here. Okay. HANKLA: Yeah. Umhmm. And this long shed was just added to that. It comes this way-- it's a great long shed. FRICKER: One that--the one that's facing us. HANKLA: Machinery shed. There's a combine sitting in there. And then there's the corn picker and a wagon and other things, next to the house. This is an old corn picker outside here. Can't tell a thing about it. FRICKER: The one setting to the left of the shed there? HANKLA: Yeah. That's a corn picker. And this is a corn sheller. FRICKER: Over here on the right. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: It's a corn sheller. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. How about this next photo here? We'll call that photo six. HANKLA: Now, that was taken from the river. That's just the pasture field up through--to the house. FRICKER: Umhmm. And is that the house that we see over here on the left? HANKLA: Yes. Your bridge is about long, right down here. FRICKER: Over to the left, out of the side--outside of the photograph. HANKLA: Yeah, where the bridge was. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: It's all been in a pile where the beams are. And the floor's scattered up and down the river for I don't know how far. FRICKER: Umhmm. How about photo seven here? What are we looking at there? HANKLA: This is a corncrib. It's back of that barn. Now where's the barn? FRICKER: Here's the house. HANKLA: The house--this is the barn. This crib is about along there. FRICKER: About in here? HANKLA: Just--just--just right out front of it, yeah. FRICKER: Okay. Well, is it connected to it or-- HANKLA: No. What--this is the barn in here. FRICKER: Number four? Uh-huh. HANKLA: Well, it's about along right there. FRICKER: Right in there? Okay. We'll draw that in there and call that number eleven. HANKLA: That's a crib, corncrib. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: See, it--it has--it was originally just that much. The crib on this side-- FRICKER: On the right. HANKLA: --and the driveway through it. Just that much. Well, I added another crib over here-- FRICKER: On the right. HANKLA: --and one on the left. FRICKER: On the far left. HANKLA: There was three compartments. And put the--pitch the corn into this side and this side from the driveway. And have windows on the outside of this in here. FRICKER: Who built the original crib? HANKLA: I did. FRICKER: You did? So you--you--you built the entire thing? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: When did you add on to it? HANKLA: When? FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: Don't remember the time; been quite a while ago. FRICKER: This tractor. Which tractor is that? HANKLA: That's--that's an Allis Chalmers tractor. That's a WD-45. I don't remember when I bought that. I bought it used, second-hand. It's a good tractor. FRICKER: How about this photo here? Photo, we're going to call that photo number eight. HANKLA: Oh, yes. That--that's the new--that was the--1948. I lived here in town. I didn't live here; lived on Fifth Street. I bought this tractor new and I was going to take it down to the farm, and this boy wanted to ride with me. It was pretty cool and he rode in my lap. (laughs) Terrible. And my wife was along. She--she went in the car. And he was glad to get out--get off of that tractor and get in the car and get warm. FRICKER: Was this your son? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: Which one was that? HANKLA: That's Scott. FRICKER: Scott? HANKLA: That's Scott. FRICKER: Here we go. On the back of it, it says Scott rode with Hank to the--Perryville on the new tractor. On the back of the photograph. HANKLA: Umhmm. He sat in my lap. And he had on those little short pants. And I know he was frozen. You can get awful cold riding a tractor. FRICKER: Can you? HANKLA: Yeah. Seems like the wind's blowing awful hard. Nineteen forty-eight. I still have that tractor. FRICKER: Do you? Do you still use it? HANKLA: Yeah. Use it all the time. Had it overhauled one time. Put new sleeves and pistons in it and it's just like a new engine. FRICKER: How about this next photo? We're going to call it photo number nine. What are we looking at there? HANKLA: That's the house that was on what we called the Powell farm, on the east side of the farm. And the vandals have torn it all to pieces. Fact is, they've broken the windows out of it. And it was a good house. FRICKER: Looks like it was. HANKLA: Real good. I drilled a new well there, right over here. FRICKER: Over on the right. HANKLA: Umhmm. In--in the lot. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: I'm afraid now that they filled it up with rocks. But what my intentions were at the time when I drilled that, I was going to run a pipeline up to the back of the farm, and put some water lines in. We have the creek all there, but no water inside the fields anywhere. And I could build a good-sized tank up there, and there's one place I could water three fields. Put it right in the corner. FRICKER: When did you put that well down? HANKLA: I've got to tell you that. I believe that was in--it's been quite a while, several years ago. FRICKER: About when was this picture taken you think? HANKLA: I don't know. Insurance people took that picture. He didn't put a date on, did he? FRICKER: Uh-uh. HANKLA: It's been the last five or six years. FRICKER: Okay. Let's call this photo ten here. What--what are we looking at there? HANKLA: That's the stock barn that's right near the house. FRICKER: Okay. That's--building down here? HANKLA: Yeah. That's a--no. This--this is at the home-place. FRICKER: Oh, okay. So this stock barn is over near the--the tenant house. HANKLA: It's on the east side, yeah. FRICKER: Was that a barn that you built? HANKLA: No. It was already there. And that's the front view of the house. FRICKER: We'll call that photo eleven. Yeah, that was a good-looking house. HANKLA: It was a good house; had a good porch on it. And it--it's torn down. Windows all broken. Somebody stole the glass out of the front door. Stole the light fixtures and just everything. FRICKER: How about photo twelve here. What are we looking at here? HANKLA: That--that's--that's a different view of--of this other barn. FRICKER: Photo ten, the stock barn. HANKLA: Yeah. This barn right here. FRICKER: And you call this a stock barn? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. How about photo thirteen, here? What are we looking at there? HANKLA: That's the front of the house. FRICKER: And that's the main house? HANKLA: Umhmm. See that rock fence? You can't see those mill stones that are put up. There's one on each side of the gate and one at each end. FRICKER: Oh, okay. You look real close. Uh-huh. Yeah, they're built-- they're built into the--the-- HANKLA: Into the fence. FRICKER: Umhmm. Did you--did your dad build that stone fence or did you? HANKLA: No, I did. FRICKER: You did? HANKLA: Umhmm. Used to have a plank fence. FRICKER: About how long ago did you build the stone fence? HANKLA: Let's see. I built that fence--oh, it's been . . . maybe in the Forties or Fifties; been there a long time. FRICKER: How about photo fourteen here? HANKLA: Now, that's a side view of the home-place. See, that's what we were looking at awhile ago, that porch with the people sitting on it. FRICKER: Back porch. HANKLA: Umhmm. And this is the back--I made this all into one room. FRICKER: Umhmm. This--this part that sticks out the back here. HANKLA: Umhmm. From--there's a door that goes in there, right straight in. And it--it comes up--it comes up to there. FRICKER: Up to where that tree is. HANKLA: It's offset in the roof. This is a little higher than this. I think it was originally built back to this chimney. And then this was added. Looks like it's made out of not as good brick as this is. FRICKER: You know when that was added on? HANKLA: No. Uh-uh. FRICKER: Where was the kitchen located? HANKLA: Right--right here. FRICKER: In that--that, on the left. HANKLA: The kitchen chimney. Umhmm. FRICKER: Was that--was that ever separate from the house or-- HANKLA: Wasn't separate, no. But you--there was no door between this and that originally. But then you had to come out of the door up here and down here and in a door there into the kitchen. And this little room right here was what they called the loom room. And somebody took that partition out and put it down this way farther and kind of divided the distance and made a dining room out of that. Well, I took the next partition out and put it all in one room, all the way from this chimney back here. FRICKER: Now, that's the section to the left. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: So this--this door that we can see on the--on the--the left, toward the left of the photograph, that entered into what used to be the loom room. HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: So that--that just goes into the main room now. And I closed this other part up that came in right here. FRICKER: Uh-huh. Okay. How about photo fifteen here? HANKLA: Now, that's the barn that's across the river. FRICKER: That's now on this map? HANKLA: No, it's--it's on--it's where that house was. FRICKER: The--the tenant house? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. And then how about photo sixteen here? HANKLA: That's the barn that's down--that's just the first barn back here, the cattle barn. FRICKER: This one here? Number five on the map? HANKLA: That's this one. Now, they--it was originally just about forty feet long. That's over here on this corner. FRICKER: On the right? HANKLA: Umhmm. And then I added this; thirty-six feet more here. FRICKER: On the right, yeah. Okay. HANKLA: And then I added this ell out this way. When I put this part on-- FRICKER: The ell. HANKLA: --I--I thought I'd use it for calves. I could feed them. I had a gate to go through between this part and this. And I could fix it so those calves could get through and then get back with their mothers. But they could--they could come in here and I could feed them. And I had the silo. I could pitch it down on the loft level, about along in there. And I had a cart, had a two-wheeled cart with a caster wheel on one end. And I could pitch the silage down in that cart and put it down through some holes that I had in the loft without going down there, and I could push it all around the loft floor and come clear around on this side. Come through here into this, at loft level. So I didn't have to get down where the cattle were. I could put the feed--just pull that cart along and shovel it right down in the--in the trough below. It made a good way to feed them. And I could also put hay down. I had a hay rack over here, and one in this side, too. FRICKER: There were both on the left--on the left and right hand side of the picture you had a-- HANKLA: I could put hay down for them without going down there. Worked fine. Good, good way to feed them. And that--that silage was easy to handle. Kind of nice. FRICKER: Were you cutting your own silage? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: When'd you start cutting--cutting your own silage? HANKLA: Well, no--let's see. No, I didn't. I didn't cut my own silage. I raised it, but I--I didn't cut it. I got somebody else to do it. FRICKER: Somebody else cut it for you? HANKLA: It--I didn't have--my silo didn't hold but a little over a hundred tons. I put a fence around the top of it. A wire fence, you know. And--oh, I guess maybe--not much over a hundred tons. Just about all it would hold. It was about all I needed. Run out just about right. FRICKER: So that would carry you through the-- HANKLA: I fed other feed with silage all the time; fed some hay and some ground corn. FRICKER: Yeah, this photo seventeen, looks like it's another shot of the-- HANKLA: Yeah, that's another side of that same barn. That's the front side of it. This--this ell that I put on here,-- FRICKER: On the right there. HANKLA: --yeah, that--that's what I fixed for calves. That's a good barn, and a good feeding barn. FRICKER: How about photo eighteen here? We'll call that photo-- HANKLA: That's an old barn that--no, that's a--that's the crib. That's that crib we had; that's another view of that crib. This is from the outside. FRICKER: This one right-- HANKLA: Over in the field. FRICKER: This one here? HANKLA: Yeah, that same crib. FRICKER: Number eleven? HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. HANKLA: I had a windstorm, too, that ripped up some roof. And these were places to put corn in. FRICKER: Up on the top there, on the roof? HANKLA: Yeah, umhmm. Take--lift those up and put your elevator out here,-- FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Yeah, that's the same crib. That's from the back side of it. FRICKER: Umhmm. Okay. How about photo nineteen, here? HANKLA: I've got two barns--two barns just alike, same size; one on one place and one on the other. Let's see. Where's that other--we passed it. FRICKER: Let's see, I think so. Back here--this one? HANKLA: That's it. FRICKER: Photo number fifteen? HANKLA: Which one--now, this is the one that-- FRICKER: Tobacco barn in woods [is] written on the back of number fifteen. Tobacco--so maybe a different shot of the same--same barn? HANKLA: No, they were different barns. But they're exactly the same size. FRICKER: Oh. HANKLA: And one's on one place, and one on the other. And they're both in the woods. (laughs) Well, this is the one that--that's at the home-place. FRICKER: Number nineteen? Yeah. Number nineteen. Where is it located on this map? Or do we have it on the map? HANKLA: Yeah, this--that's--that's this one. FRICKER: Number six? HANKLA: That's this one. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: Okay. How about photo twenty here? HANKLA: That's that corncrib again. It's another picture of that. FRICKER: Another picture of the corncrib? HANKLA: Yeah. FRICKER: Okay. And then number twenty-one, the last one. HANKLA: That's another picture of the--of this red barn that's back of this--this gully. That-- FRICKER: The one with the silo or-- HANKLA: Is this the barn? FRICKER: This is--here's the house. Here's the smokehouse. HANKLA: Yeah, there's a picture of this one. FRICKER: Number four. Okay. HANKLA: Umhmm. That's taken from the northeast--northeast view. FRICKER: Okay. Well, that was through all the pictures. Anything else you can think of you might want to talk about, about farming in Kentucky? We went through those earlier. HANKLA: Farming in Kentucky. FRICKER: How things have changed since you've been farming. HANKLA: Well, it sure has changed a lot. The way we plant corn and--and harvest it, changed completely. You know, a long time ago they used to do what they called "lay the ground off". After you plowed it, you take a single shovel plow, and if you wanted to check it, they called it "check it", so you could plant--plow it both ways, you lay it off both ways. You take that single shovel plow and about--make furrows about three feet to forty inches wide. I mean apart. You go this way. Then you go this way. FRICKER: At right angles? HANKLA: Go--yes. FRICKER: Uh-huh. HANKLA: Then you'd just be in squares. And you plant your corn right where they'd cross. And see, you could plow it both ways. And you plowed it with a plow they called the double shovel. It would have one narrow point in front. "Bull tongue" they called it. And the other was the bigger shovel. And you'd plow it on each side. You'd go twice in each row; close to this side and then to the next row. And you'd go that way with it, or you could go the other way, cross ways. FRICKER: So what was the single shovel? HANKLA: The single shovel was just a plow with one point, just one plow. That's what you'd use to lay it off with. And then I remember something that we made. Instead of using the plows, just a marker, is--we'd make it with runners. Just like sled runners. And we had three on it. And we also had a marker. We measured it--to fasten to this was just a long pole with a block of wood on that end about two inches wide, and a rope to fasten to it to pull it. And we could--we could mark--put that down so we'd know where to come back. And you'd drive through, you turn, you pick your marker up and turn it over on the other side, rope and all, you know. And you'd come back, mark your place, and come back again. And things could go both ways with that. Then you'd take a corn planter, we called it "a jobber". Of course, used to drop the corn. One fella would drop it and the other one would cover it. You drop it right where they crossed, you know. And you've have it so you plowed both ways, straight. It's quite a--and then, of course, they had the machine to plant it with. Corn planter. And you could use a wire that you'd stretch across a field that had knots. It- -it had joints in it. And those joints would go through, fit in through the prong on the corn planter. It would turn back that would drop the corn every time you passed one of those knots. If you would keep about the same amount of tension on your chain across the field, each time you--you went through, you had to disconnect it from the corn planter. You just pull the string and trip that chain. Then you'd have to get off and flip it over just--let's see, what did you go by? Your marker, I guess. Anyway, you had to flip the chain over out in the field. And if you kept about the same tension on it, it'd be straight enough to plow what you would call the crooked way, way that you were driving. But that was soon discontinued and now you just drill it. You get--you have plates that go in the planter that will space your corn. Depends on the plates in the planter turn with holes--have holes in it and they let the corn out. And it just drills it, you see. And you can make it--you can set it to space it. Depends on how fast it turns. It's a whole lot better. And you just--you don't plow it now. You--you spray it for weeds. Not necessary to plow. FRICKER: So the--when--when you started drilling the corn, you no longer had to plow? HANKLA: Well, you could plow it one way. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: Yeah. That's the way I do it now. When we have no till, we make it heavy enough to penetrate the hard ground and have our disc in front. Scalloped they call it. And it--it cuts the ground up, and your planter will go through that and plant your corn in that softer ground. Germinates a little quicker and gets out of the ground better. And puts your fertilizer in [at] the same time. Or you can put some in. People usually use enough to just get the corn started good. And then they--they put the other fertilizer on later. They use liquid-- you use liquid fertilizer and spray it or you can use granular and put it on later. And then you spray it for weeds and you don't have any problem most of the time. FRICKER: Most of the time. (laughs) HANKLA: That's the idea. And then in the fall you just pick it. That's all there is to it. You can disc it then and sow it in your cover crop. If you want to plow it again next year, or plant it again next year--or you can--if you want to disc it up and sow it in something. Grass, you want to do that early as you can. Of course, you have to wait until they get the corn off. And it'd be better if you could sow grass earlier, but it usually works out all right. FRICKER: How do you decide whether you're going to plant it again or plant a cover crop or-- HANKLA: Well, it just depends on what the program's going to be. Whether you want it--if you--usually they'll plant it in corn more than once; because you can't hardly afford to destroy a crop of grass just for one year's corn, in my opinion. Plant it at least two years before you put it back in grass. FRICKER: How long would you leave it in grass once--once you've put it in? HANKLA: Well, that depends on your farming, how much you--grazing you want or hay or whatever. It should be left sometime though. It needs rest. And, of course, when you spray it, you kill all the grass on it. And you have a certain amount of erosion. The main thing is to try to save your dirt. Can't get anymore dirt. If you--if you can control erosion, that's your--that's a big, big problem. It's a--the most important one. FRICKER: How has controlling erosion changed since you've been farming, started farming? HANKLA: Well, a long time ago, of course, they just plowed and plowed and they lost so much of the good top soil. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: And that--that's--that's just--very important to save it, in my opinion. Keep it from getting away. So grass is something that--and turning it. It's good to turn under a green crop of some kind, even weeds. It adds humus and keeps the soil in better physical condition. Weeds or grass or straw or anything you can turn under adds a lot of humus to it. I think that's very important. FRICKER: What--how did you learn about protecting the soil from erosion? HANKLA: Well, we had--at school we had a crop--we had a class that's called field crops. And Professor Haggin taught that class. And I--I guess that's where I got started thinking about it. But when you just stop to think, well, that--that's a good way to save the soil; aerate it. That's important. You don't want to work it until it's so fine that it's all clay. It packs and that's not good for it. It'll wash away. It's good to keep your ground covered in something that penetrates. Good--alfalfa crop is good for it. It--those roots go pretty deep. And clover crop of almost any kind. It gets nitrogen from the air, of course, and that--that helps your bluegrass or other crops that you have there. FRICKER: Excuse me. Let me turn the tape here. [Tape two, side a ends; tape two, side b begins.] FRICKER: You mentioned a class. Professor Haggin taught when you were in school. Was that when you were in high school, the--the field class? HANKLA: Yeah. Umhmm. Umhmm. FRICKER: That was a class that he came out-- HANKLA: Umhmm. FRICKER: You mentioned bluegrass. Did you blow--did you grow bluegrass? HANKLA: Yes, we--we have--we were sowing bluegrass several times. FRICKER: Did you grow it for--for market? HANKLA: Pasture. FRICKER: Just for pasture? HANKLA: Just for pasture mainly. You'd make some kind of clover with it. And Korean lespedeza makes a good pasture, especially for sheep. Well, for anything, but sheep love it. FRICKER: How about when there was a market for bluegrass seed? Did you ever-- HANKLA: No, I never raised any for seed; maybe harvest some for myself to re-sow. FRICKER: Was that something that folks around here did much? HANKLA: Well, the--the--some of the farms here used to raise it for seed. And they harvested--harvested it for seed. I remember they had a lot of "bluegrass strippers" they called them. And they--they stripped seed, and I think you had to take it to - I've forgotten the name of the people now - but I believe it was Versailles to have it cleaned. But I harvested--when I harvested it, I just sowed it in the rough. That was a little more trouble, but that--you can do that. FRICKER: Now, what does that mean? You said "sowed it in the rough?" HANKLA: I didn't get all of the trash out it. There'd be all the stems and that kind of stuff; just the way I got it from the machine. FRICKER: Umhmm. But that was for your own use. HANKLA: You could run it through a hammer mill, and that would break up--break the straws or the--make it in a finer--reduce it to where you could handle it better in the rough. FRICKER: Now, what's a hammer mill? HANKLA: That a machine that you grind corn and grind feed on. FRICKER: Umhmm. HANKLA: That grinds it up pretty small. FRICKER: Well, I've about run out of questions, (laughs) unless you got something else you want to share with me? HANKLA: What? FRICKER: I've about run out of questions unless you have something else you want to share with me that--that-- HANKLA: No. FRICKER: --you can think of. HANKLA: I've forgotten a single one to ask now. (laughs) FRICKER: Well, I appreciate you taking time to talk with me. HANKLA: Well, glad to do it. [End of interview.] In his second interview, Henry Hankla follows up on questions asked in the previous interview. Hankla discusses the apple orchard , especially a variety of apple named “Early Harvest,” sales of farm produce like eggs, butter and cream, and considers his mother’s biscuits and meal patterns. He describes use of chemicals on the farm, tobacco and hay production, and farm buildings (smokehouses, machine shed, garage, barn, milk house, tobacco barn). Hankla also discusses family reunions. In addition, there is a relatively detailed description of sweet sorghum syrup production and processing. Hankla describes his change to a herd involving calves which were bought in the spring and then fed until fall. The calves were then sold to avoid the cost of feeding them over the winter while profiting by their weight gain over the summer. Hankla explains his preference of the Angus breed of cattle because of their growth characteristics and their lack of horns. As Hankla comments on photographs of the farm, he notes that a mill and distillery were sited on the farm in the past. He also explains silage production and on farm handling of silage which grew out of a photo with an image of a silo on it. The interview concludes with a discussion of changes in corn farming and bluegrass as forage. insert here